12 Monkeys – Amanda Schull and Aaron Stanford

By starrymag | May 15, 2017

By: Lisa Steinberg

 

Q) So first of all, I absolutely love the season, it was really great. Well now I can’t wait for season 4 but that’s going to be a while. So I’m trying to think of the best way to word this, because obviously you guys can’t mention specifics when you talk about it. But I feel like a lot of this season is about choices and sacrifices and what they choose to put first.  And in past seasons, the most important thing to Cole was saving the world and this season he puts Cassie first and obviously what happens with Ramse. But yet he’s willing – well for a while – to kill his own son. And then Cassie obviously struggles with it. At first she’s willing to commit suicide and kill the baby, yet after she can’t bring herself to go with Cole. So can you kind of just talk about those changes and how they struggle with that and how they deal with the choices they make?

Amanda: So I’m trying to think of how to deal with that as a larger question. I mean, it’s sort of easier to talk about in the individual circumstances. In the show you see this theme of circles and cycles coming up over and over and over again. And one of the things that you continuously see are all the characters being put in this position where they have to make a choice between the greater good or the good of somebody that they hold dear, someone they love, a family member, you know, a wife or a husband. And in the case of Cole you’re right, he starts off the entire series essentially on a suicide mission, a mission of self-sacrifice. He doesn’t really value his life and he’s all too willing to sacrifice it to save humanity and to give himself a clean slate. And then this season, it does get complicated because suddenly there is this revelation that the architect of the apocalypse is in fact his son. So suddenly it becomes very, very personal. And at first he is able to distance himself from that and sort of divorce himself from that reality and that causes a divide between he and Cassie because she sees it very differently and I’ll let Amanda talk about that in a minute. But Cole is very willing to go through with this and in fact, essentially sacrifice his own son until he gets put in a situation where he comes face to face with him, and it changes his entire perspective on things.

Aaron: And Cassie, I don’t know if Amanda wants to talk about this but, I think the discovery that our child is the witness is different for her having carried the child to term and having had an actual relationship with him.

Amanda: I would have said the same thing— that Cassie carried the baby and because of that, she has a much different relationship and bond with it. I think she says “for me he’s real” at one point when she’s speaking about him to Cole because for Cole it isn’t real, it’s just a concept that the child exists. And then, also, she has this strong belief that the reason he has been basically programmed to do what he will do, whether it’s cyclical or fate or destiny or whatever it is, that it’s nurture, it’s not nature. He wasn’t born that way. And she really strongly believes that she can change things if she’s able to save his soul.

Q) I’ll ask non-plotty things for the benefit of folks who have not seen any of the episodes. So you guys get to go to some new decades and some new places in season 4, so was there a favorite year or place that y’all got to visit personally and as your characters?

Amanda: I can say that my favorite time period for Aaron Stanford was the 80s and those jeans.

Q) His Marty McFly moment?

Aaron: My Marty McFly outfit was a pretty big hit on set. So the 80s was pretty fun.

Q) And Amanda you got to rock some pretty neat outfits at different points so did you have a favorite year or decade?

Amanda: Yes, you know, we’ve gotten to go back to the 50s a couple of times and it’s really fun and elegant and I sort of channel a little bit of Breakfast at Tiffany’s type thing which is always – well I guess that was the 60s. But it’s always nice for Cassie to get to clean up from the apocalypse and the time facility. A favorite was in episode 8 when we went to Victorian London. I think that was pretty special for the two of them to get dressed up and walk down the cobblestoned streets. And Aaron had a wonderful bespoke suit and I had a beautiful dress designed and built by Joyce Schure, our wonderful costume designer. And that was special to get to clean up and really get to go back as far as they have ever gone back and play the part for a whole episode.

Aaron: Yes that was a lot of fun. And also, just as a side note, I want to say that what is very strange about Amanda is that she seems to fit in any time period except our own. She’s an anachronism but if you dress her up in the 50s it just somehow looks right, Victorian London looks right, the 80s looks right but just right now she doesn’t belong. It’s very strange.

Q)  You guys have already brought up the Marty McFly outfit. It seemed like all four of you were referencing something. It looked like Todd Stashwick was wearing a Sonny Crockett type outfit, but I didn’t get the girls. Who were Emily (Hampshire) and Amanda taking after?

Aaron: I think Amanda was trying to affect Cyndi Lauper. I mean Emily. Emily was going after a Cyndi Lauper kind of vibe.

Amanda: Emily. I think it was Cyndi Lauper meets Boy George and then there was a little bit of Dynasty thrown in there at one point.

Aaron: Like the blazer with the giant puffy shoulders and the really high waisted mom jeans and semi-crimped hair. It was just a mishmash of mistakes.

Amanda: Okay well first of all that’s rude. (Laughter) Second of all, I think there were a couple of like 80s Brat Pack movies that were just sort of an amalgamation.

Aaron: That makes sense. You were kind of a Molly Ringwald maybe.

Q)  I see that season 3 is going to be presented in this sort of binge format and I wasn’t quite sure what to think of that at first. But I guess, you know, nowadays a lot of the best shows, a lot of the Netflix and Hulu stuff is presented in that kind of a format. And obviously 12 Monkeys is a binge-worthy show. So in that regard, do you guys think that this approach is a good thing or what do you think about it?

Aaron: I think it’s a good thing because that’s the way I like to watch TV. You know, I think as you said – this show definitely, definitely lends itself to binge watching. Every single episode ends with a huge cliffhanger and you can’t wait to find out what happens next. And there’s so much going on that if you’re able to marry, string some of these episodes together, honestly it’s much easier to follow what’s happening, you know, if you can consume multiple episodes in one sitting. So I think it very much works for this show in particular. And I just think it’s the future. It’s clear that’s how people want to watch, that’s what it’s all moving towards, and I think this is just a step in that direction.

Amanda: Again I just agree with Aaron, sadly. But beyond that, you know, you don’t have to binge every single episode in that sitting. You can TiVo it, watch a couple, take a break, come back, watch a couple more before in the morning and then watch a couple more at night. I too tend to watch a lot of my favorite programming more than one episode at a time. I think it’s a little bit antiquated that people sit through weekly episodes now. And it was exciting also for us because it had been a long time in the making. We had a very long hiatus between seasons 2 and 3. And it’s exciting for us to finally get it all out there – the result, the product of our hard work and anticipation and to finally be able to share it with the people who care about it as much as we do

Q) I’m wondering for you two personally, how long have you guys known who the witness actually is and how was it in this season dealing with him both as a kid and as an adult?

Amanda: I can’t speak for Aaron but I believe I knew who the witness was going to be in mid-season 2. Terry’s really great and we have this luxury with our show. Because of the mythology of the show, the storylines aren’t accidents and there is an end game in mind. And maybe some of the connective tissue leading up to the final result needed to be hashed out, but Terry knew how he wanted to end every season, and he has known from the beginning how he wants to end the show.  And so because of that, Terry’s able to drop hints in storylines whether it’s individually or collectively to all of us about where our character needs to go which gives us a building idea of how to create the character and how to pace it. And so I knew that Cassie was going to get pregnant the end of season 2 and I knew that it was going to be the product of two time travelers out of time and that’s why this child can basically exist and that’s why he’s so special. And so I had that luxury to know that I was going to lead up to that. And then we did have this very unusual storyline given the interesting mythology of our show in time travel that we suddenly have a child who’s older than we are that we got to work with in season 3, James Callis, and that was a real treat. He’s a lot of fun on camera and off. And it was really interesting because he was familiar with the first two seasons and he came into the show with a lot of wonderful ideas and feelings about his character and how we would all relate together and he fit right in. It was quite a bit of fun.

Aaron: Yes, she basically covered it. You know, I found out around the same time she did. We don’t get that much advance notice. At the beginning of season 1 when we were shooting, none of us had any idea where this was going to go. I don’t know how much was already conceived in the minds of the writers but they sort of gave us pieces of information a bit at a time. So yes, it was around mid-season 2 where that idea was given to us of who the witness was actually going to be and the stakes of it, so we did have a decent amount of time to drop that in and think about it. And just like Amanda said, James Callis was perfectly cast for that role and the dynamic of meeting your child as an adult was really interesting. I thought of it like the position of meeting a child that you’ve given up for adoption and they find you later in life. And you have this connection, this bond. You share blood but you don’t really know each other and you have to find your way to some sort of relationship. So I thought that was pretty interesting.

Q) It seems like more than ever you are both going through a lot this season, and Aaron in your case, a lot more physical activity although certainly Amanda has had some too. Talk about dealing with the conflicts that you’re going to be dealing with in season 3. No spoilers of course, but what has it been like for you as actors to deal with that?

Aaron: Yes, you know – the onus is on the writers to intensify things constantly. The stakes have to continually be raised. And when you start a series out where the fate of the world is in the balance it’s difficult to continue to build off of that but they have managed to do it. And in terms of my own character, it has been a roller coaster. You know, he has been all over the map. And in the beginning of season 3 he is in a very, very desperate place. He has lost the woman he loves, he has lost his family, he has lost the only resemblance of a real life he’s ever had and he’s a man on a mission. He’s desperate to find Cassie and things are not going as planned. And he seems to be the only guy in the room who doesn’t realize that the game has already been lost. So that’s where he begins season 3.

 

Q) And for you Amanda. Cassie?

Amanda: Where she starts? Well this season she starts in a pretty low place. I think over the course of her imprisonment, which is basically what it was…it starts out as a pretty cushy imprisonment, psychologically not so much, but they are giving her everything she needs and could possibly desire as far as material, food and comfort and whatever else because she is housing their savior. And other than that she is of absolutely no use to anyone in Titan which is terrifying because as soon as she no longer is pregnant she’s pretty sure that she’ll either be killed or abandoned. But beyond that, she has the product of a relationship that is only a dream, really. She doesn’t remember it tangibly because Cole had to make the decision to basically erase that timeline. So she remembers these little fragments of it and I think while she’s there with nothing other than her thoughts she probably has pieced together this whole life that she could have had which is even more devastating and she’s probably believing that she’ll never see Cole again. So she’s as low as we’ve ever seen her, which was upsetting and sad and frustrating and disappointing and challenging and exciting all at once to be able to play. But at the same time, Cassie’s got this tiny little kernel of hope which is why she makes a break for it at one point only to be very quickly stopped. But that one little fragment of hope and possibility, I think, fuels her. And then having the child and seeing his face for that split second is what fuels her even further throughout the season to be able to try to save his soul and in doing that, save the world.

Q) If you had to sit them down and basically slap them on the head with like, “this is a life lesson, pay attention,” what would it be and why?

Aaron: I would sit Cole down and tell him to come down off the cross. He’s very guilt prone, he’s very anxious to carry the entire weight of the world on his shoulders. You know, there’s a lot of self-loathing in that character and I think I’d sit him down and just tell him to give himself a little bit of a break. He’s basically a good guy. He’s trying to save the world and there are a lot of frustrations, but basically he’s a good person who was put in very, very difficult circumstances and he has done the best he can. And yes, I think I’d just tell him to give himself a little bit of a break. Take it.

Amanda: ’d tell Cole that he needs to start making plans because he’s averse to making plans and it really irritates Cassie. Make a plan, babe.

Aaron: He’s spontaneous and that is a trait that should be valued in a committed relationship.

Amanda: That is not spontaneity.

 

Aaron: He’s a good time.

Amanda: It’s a good time that leads to like death and destruction every single time no plans are made.

Aaron: Or does everything actually work out in the end and all Cassie’s best laid plans lie in ruin? I think that’s closer to the reality.

Amanda: I think we’re doing a different show. I just think you and I are doing…

Aaron: This sounds like a Twitter poll we might have to put out there to figure out.

Amanda: Oh the answer is mine, but I don’t need a poll. (Laughter)

Aaron: We’ll see. We’ll leave it up to the people. (Laughter)

Amanda: The people. Yes, I think I would say for Cassie, I mean, it’s hard for me to be able to give her any one piece of advice because her world and her beliefs and her mission has vacillated, morphed and changed dramatically and considerably even from one episode to the next. So just when I think she ought to start looking out for just herself and her child, she does that. Just when I think that she ought to start to looking out a little bit more for humanity, she suddenly does that. I mean, she… I think that she is incredibly human that way where the objective and the alliance to the mission changes from one moment to the next depending on the circumstances and what’s at stake and who’s at stake. If I were to give her one small bit of advice, I wish that she just had a second but the circumstances of our show don’t allow for it as often. I really just want her to be able to just sit and breathe for a minute or two. Just have a coffee or just take a nap under a tree – just have a second for herself. If I could give her any advice it would be, just take five Cassie.

Q) Since the show has so many twists and turns and the past and the future is constantly changing, it’s such an intricate show, do you try to keep up with all of the details and things that have happened or do you just take each episode one at a time or each season one at a time when you’re doing your work?

Aaron: t’s not a choice, you can’t – as nice as it would be – you can’t choose to just not understand what’s happening. The show is an incredibly intricate jigsaw and you have to have an understanding of each individual piece to put it together.

Q) In order to do the acting?

Aaron: es, in order to do the acting, in order to make choices, in order to decide where your character is at in their journey, where they’re at in the immediate sense on an emotional level. You have to remember where they’re at in their own cycle in order to have everything make sense ultimately

Q) And is that difficult?

Aaron: Yes.

Q) Do they do anything to help you guys out with that. Do they have a big board or something?

Aaron: There’s a lot going on. What makes it a little bit easier for us is that, you know, we live this, for 14 to 16 hours a day while we’re shooting it. We’re immersed in it and we’re constantly thinking about it, reading it, discussing it. So it’s always there. I have found it the most difficult after the longer hiatuses where we’ve come back after months away and then you have to find your way back in and that’s tricky. You have to go back and rewatch the episodes, reread some of the scripts, and just get yourself back into that mindset.

Amanda: Yes that’s true for me also. I am a pretty meticulous note taker so I take notes when I’m reading the script, when I’m doing scenes I jot things down. But Aaron is right, having a long hiatus was a little bit jarring, you know, snapping yourself out of the world because the world is quite immersive and that of the character. But at the same time every single department does such a great job creating the environment once we step into it that it’s easy for a sense memory to kind of come flooding back when we get back into the time facility or into the Emerson Hotel. And you remember the scenes that you did there and the moments you had there and the emotion you felt there. And so once we’re back in it, I think for me at least, I’m really in it. And I can remember all these things that I might not have felt from the comfort of my condo in Los Angeles. It’s all right there on the surface again.

Yes it’s been interesting. You know, on the one hand I think one of the things that has changed the most is that social media has made everything such a minefield. It’s like such a game to keep from anything being leaked, you know. Everyone is so paranoid about spoilers being released and you have to be careful with every single word you say or every single picture that you post because people are watching. And the particularly, you know, devoted fans are going through everything with a fine toothed comb to figure out every single little detail that they can. So that has been interesting, this sort of atmosphere of secrecy and intrigue that we have to, you know, keep all these things very close to the vest. And then in terms of immediate response, I do think it’s interesting, yes because, you know, coming from a background of theater you do have that immediate response. You know right away if things are going well or not. If it’s a comedy and people laugh, you know you’re doing the right thing. And if it’s drama, you can hear a pin drop, people are holding their breath, then you know you’re doing the right thing. But with film and television quite often there is no real way to know and you just hope that what you’re doing is going to land and that people are going to respond to it. So yes, it is nice every once in a while see a tweet where somebody had a very strong emotional reaction to a scene you were in, was affected by it, or thought it was hysterical or whatever it was. It is nice to have that little affirmation.

Q) What is it like for you guys as actors to see the kind of evolution of social media, how it plays out, and to be able to be online and see fans reacting to things that you might not have even noticed in a scene and be able to kind of give the immediate feedback?

Aaron: Yes it’s been interesting. You know, on the one hand I think one of the things that has changed the most is that social media has made everything such a minefield. It’s like such a game to keep from anything being leaked, you know. Everyone is so paranoid about spoilers being released and you have to be careful with every single word you say or every single picture that you post because people are watching. And the particularly, you know, devoted fans are going through everything with a fine toothed comb to figure out every single little detail that they can. So that has been interesting, this sort of atmosphere of secrecy and intrigue that we have to, you know, keep all these things very close to the vest. And then in terms of immediate response, I do think it’s interesting, yes because, you know, coming from a background of theater you do have that immediate response. You know right away if things are going well or not. If it’s a comedy and people laugh, you know you’re doing the right thing. And if it’s drama, you can hear a pin drop, people are holding their breath, then you know you’re doing the right thing. But with film and television quite often there is no real way to know and you just hope that what you’re doing is going to land and that people are going to respond to it. So yes, it is nice every once in a while see a tweet where somebody had a very strong emotional reaction to a scene you were in, was affected by it, or thought it was hysterical or whatever it was. It is nice to have that little affirmation.

Amanda: I agree with Aaron. Begrudgingly I just seem to agree with everything that he’s saying today. I think also to tag onto what he was saying about the immediacy of theater, I did a lot of stage performance in my former career and there’s a different sort of visceral response you get from having an audience and you just hope that you’re capturing that on film. You can’t be certain that that’s what you’re doing. And we’re in a little bit of a vacuum, also. We can’t change our performance or adapt it depending on whether we’ve hit the figurative mark or not within our audience, so there’s also that. We have the immediacy of people commenting on it – whether it’s positive or negative – but we don’t have the luxury of being able to adapt our own performance based on even what we see of ourselves, not necessarily what people comment on ourselves. So it’s sort of a combination of two worlds colliding when you consider social media and film and television now.

Q)  I wanted to talk a little bit about this really complicated relationship that Cassie and Cole have, probably one of the most complicated relationships on TV. So in season 1 it was kind of… it’s really surprising this has all happened in three seasons. But in season 1 we saw Cassie and Cole come together and then in season 2 they were basically at odds with each other through a lot of that season. They finally get to come together again. How is this complicated relationship playing into everything that’s going on in the new season?

Aaron: That’s a good question. I’d say with Cassie what complicates it and what really hinders her is that she can’t come to terms with how head over heels in love she is

Amanda: I knew, I knew you were going there. (Laughter).

Aaron: She’s just hopelessly in love .

Amanda: If we were in the same room, I’d be able to smack you.

Aaron: In a pool of adoration.

Amanda: Oh God. So many barfs.

Aaron: Well I can tell you that there is more complication in season 3. I guess that’s the only way it’s coming to me how to answer this question. There has been, as you said, a lot of turmoil in their relationship, a lot of difficulty with them actually finally finding their way to each other and then circumstances splitting them apart again. And in season 3 you do see more of that happening. The one thing that brings them together is the shared discovery and secret that their child is in fact the witness and is responsible for the destruction of the world. And they have to carry that burden together and for a time it unites them and then I think eventually in the season the weight of it sort of splits them apart again.

Amanda: Yes, I mean, it’s – their strange and unusual relationship but also their deep love for each other plays into effect in every single decision they make. They’re united with this purpose to be able to stop the end of the world, basically, but almost every single mission they go on there’s also this kernel of knowledge in the back of their heads that if they do stop the plague, if they do stop all of these things from happening, that could also mean that they will no longer have met and they no longer have ever even known each other. So it’s a very unique and complicated bond, and there’s a lot of push and pull, one person feeling one way having respect and understanding for that and maybe going along with it or maybe really feeling a different way at another time. But at the same – by the same token – there is just this unique bond they have for one another underneath all of the decisions that come into play.

Q) But I noticed as a viewer, I see a lot of parallels between your storylines and a lot of classical mythology, primarily Norse and Greek mythology. And I was wondering if the writers talk to you about some of their inspirations for different characters. I know you know the movie obviously, but I’m thinking more of the Norse characters of the three Norns who are the women who control destiny. The three Norns. They are three women who control destiny themselves and I sort of see them in Cassie, Jennifer, and Magdalena. And basically they followed not a linear timeline of mankind but a cyclical where they go present, past, change the past, and then a new present occurs absorbing the changed past and it kind of just goes in cycles like that. And the storyline kind of speaks to me in that way.

Aaron: I’ll tell you what, if they’re not making allusion to that they should be. I don’t have the answer to that. I don’t know if they specifically used that myth. I know that they are influenced by mythology in general. You’ll definitely notice references to Greek mythology. These guys are big genre and sci fi fans and most of the best sci fi is actually based on ancient mythology. A film franchise like Star Wars is known as the Birth of Modern Mythology. All these rules for storytelling were laid out in the poetics and they sort of adhere to these same rules and that’s just what good storytelling is. So I do not have an answer to that question – whether or not that specific myth comes into play – but I know the writers definitely, definitely lean heavily on ancient mythology.

Q) I wondered, and especially Amanda, as like the visual storytellers for the writers, do you kind of feel the, I don’t know, sort of the behest of legends to be able to portray…. Like your character kind of reminds me if it’s Greek mythology to Echidna who is the mother of all monsters. And I forget her mate, (Tysus) or (Typha) something like that. But your character makes me think of Echidna so I just – I wonder if as a female lead in the series – and there are so many female characters of mythology that put the world on its axis – do you feel any of that in your character?

Amanda: Absolutely. Well Aaron is right that the writers are very influenced by Greek mythology. If you even consider my character’s name, they changed it from the movie which was Kathryn Reynolds, I believe. I can’t remember her last name, but they changed Kathryn to Cassandra of the Greek myth. And that was a particularly powerful storyline for Cassie in the first season –knowing the fate of the world and knowing what was going to happen and nobody listened to her. And you’re right in that Cassie does have a lot of the strengths and weight, similar to Greek mythology, on her shoulders throughout the entire season. But I would go further to say that it’s the women in the show, the female roles that these men, these male writers, have created that allow the weight to shift from one character to the next. But in particular for these women, allowing them strength that is often reserved for male characters is of particular fascination to me, and flattery as well. And it also just really works with the mythology of our personal show but of course is also very strong in Greek mythology as well.

Q) Usually there’s a lot of pressure on actors to keep spoilers inside and not reveal things that you’ve already done in episodes ahead or seasons ahead in filming. How much more enjoyable is season 3 going to be for you knowing that it’s all released at once? There’s nothing really taboo to talk about except that I did hear you’re working on season 4 already so maybe that’s kind of, you know, something to worry about. But is this a relieving season for you knowing that everything is all released at once?

Aaron: I hadn’t thought about it in that respect. Yes, I think it will make things easier. It just gets out there very quickly and then people can have their online discussions in peace. So yes, I think that will be nice. In general, I’m looking forward to seeing how the experiment works out and how people respond to it. I personally think they’re going to love it because that’s how I prefer to watch things and I think most of our fan base will probably prefer that as well. Everybody is into their own various streaming platforms now. I just think it’s a superior way to do it and yes, I think it’s the right move. And you’re right, it probably will take some pressure off of having to bottle up those spoilers for months at a time.

Amanda: I feel as though I still need to keep some things bottled up for at least a few weeks afterwards because there are other countries that don’t air the binge the same weekend that we do in America. So I have been chastised online for mentioning things about an episode even a few days after an episode airs by people in another country who have been waiting until that weekend to see it and didn’t realize that such and such was going to happen or that, you know, so and so was going to make a guest appearance and they get disappointed in me saying something. So I have found the safest way to discuss our show, especially if I’m live tweeting it, is in a very abstract format which is how I’ll probably continue to tweet about our show for fear of ruining somebody’s experience. We work really hard on the show and I want everybody to appreciate all the work that we put into it.

 

*CONFERENCE CALL*