An Avocado Pit

By starrymag | February 11, 2024

By: Jamie Steinberg

 

 

Q) What was it that inspired you to want to tell this story?

Ary: An Avocado Pit came from the urge of seeing trans people alive on cinema in our real lives. It’s difficult to have control over our narratives, but in film it’s possible. So, being transgender, I think I come with this responsibility of portraying a different reality that still exists, but people lack access to it because most of films with trans people have been made by cisgender people, so they didn’t go through this experience of being trans. And it has a lot to be told, uh, that goes beyond even gender, but for sure goes beyond violence and goes beyond death.

Q) Tell us a bit about the significance of the title and where it comes from. 

Ary: The title comes from observing, uh, avocado pits that I planted while I was writing this film. And what I saw was that the avocado came to a point where it just stopped growing. I wondered what was happening. So, I tried to transplant the plant and when I looked at its roots, the plant was trying to expand, but I couldn’t see it from the outside. So, I related this event to my transition because I was expecting too much to be seen on the outside, and I was not looking at everything I was accomplishing on the inside. So, that’s why I picked that title for this film. And also being my first short film, this is a process that sometimes you can’t see from the outside, but it’s always happening and doesn’t need constant validation.

Q) Tell me a bit about your background coming to film and how you became a filmmaker.

Ary: I studied film thirteen years ago in university. I was often in Lisbon and then in Austin. But I couldn’t breakthrough in cinema. We have a small industry here in Portugal, so it was hard to make it happen and I kind of gave up. I started to do other stuff, and after my transition I decided to try once again. I presented my script to Andreia [Nunes] from Take It Easy and they embraced me within the company and helped me develop this film. But I didn’t grow up with this dream of being a filmmaker. I grew up with this feeling of wanting to change the world, and it’s very utopic and idealists sometimes surreal. But it’s a wheel that I carry and I try to bring within what I write and what I do.

Q) Ivo, I’d like to hear your thoughts on the character you play and how you approach the role.

Ivo:  It was a major challenge. I had a major pleasure working with Ary and Gaya [de Medeiros]. Unfortunately, she can’t be here today. I believe that we worked in a state of freedom and respect for each other’s knowledge and lack of it. So, how long did we have? Like a couple, a month maybe? Yeah. Like, we did a couple of rewritings, a lot of talking.  I think I had a lot of questions, and I think they had some questions as well. And we tried to find this common ground of curiosity and the way we worked brought in this chemistry between me and Gaya. It was great from day one. I think that I didn’t have to act much in the sense that it was human beings with a story like this, in which the objective was the absence of violence, but still all the doubts that we as human beings with experiences and limitations have, could express, put us all in a place of major fluidity. I think that we had this really ease to work with and from where I sit, what I think that it fascinated me while doing the work, and after that, watching what we did we were able…I believe that we were able to, as human beings, to see a couple of human beings trying their best to get together and try to hit it sometimes. I think to me, that was one of the most pleasureful experiences that I had in acting in the last five to 10 years. Right.

Q) Would you say there’s a lot of yourself in the character there? Are you similar to the character you’re playing on screen? 

Ivo: Everything that I do as an actor has me in it. What I don’t know, I research. What I can’t research, I imagine. And the combination of the three things. Yeah, I try to put myself as much as I can in there and all that back and forth of that character towards, another person, is very much, my emotional human experience with a anybody. this is just another,

Q) Andreia and Frederico, how did this start for you and did you know Ary before? How did this this come to you and come about for you guys?

Andreia: Ivo, so we know for a long time. And as Ary said, he got to live, and I was producing all the time here with Take It Easy. And then when he presented the film, now it was Ary, so it was a different person. So, the first thing for me it was to understand his world and everything about him, and to understand the purpose of doing this short film to know if we as company and producers we fit in the project because it’s very specific and special. We are not trans people. We are not in the community. So, in order to understand it deeply, we need to understand first and all the process. So, that was the first thing of everything. And with this combined, of course, the writing and rewriting and everything of the project it took more or less two years or three years to come to this script. The script that we shot. Yes. But the connection was very clear for us because it was a very honest film. So, Ary has something to tell, and it was from the bottom of his heart and the idea to have a short film about the community, especially about trans people, and especially about the trans woman that it’s not about violence. It was kind of the thing that’s got me, and I think got us as producers and as a company. But with that in mind, we need to understand and to know it’s the best way possible. And the way that I need, Ary needs to tell the story. So, it was a combination of learning, and then putting ourselves in the best of ourselves in that also.

Frederico: Yeah. And when I read the last draft, I felt that we have to put this film on. We have to put the script on the screen because here in Portugal is very important also to share these things with the people. And this kind of script is for everyone. It’s not only for French people, not, not only for LGBT, it’s for everyone. It’s so honest as Andreia said. And it’s also so, so powerful and so, so balanced – everything. So, I felt it is really important to, to, to share this, this script. And also, for me, as a straight person, I also felt some curiosity to learn more about this and that. And I learned a lot with Ary and I was also very courtesy to know more about these difficulties for, and, uh, this also problems. And, and the film is so honest on this thing. It doesn’t, as told before, doesn’t bring violence and it’s so hopeful. A lot of hope on this film. It’s really important. It was, yeah. It’s unusual to see a film so hopeful about trans people.

Q) Elliot, what it was about this film that made you want to come on board as an executive producer?

Elliot: Well, the first time I saw it, it just floored me, every aspect of it. And it was quite a lovely moment how it happened. My dear friend, star Rasu, amazing musician, DJ studying film now herself, was curating a shorts program for Outfest. And she was staying with me, visiting me in Toronto, and was like, you have to see the short film. I just watched. You have to see the short film. And we watched it. And, I mean, from the opening frames, it had me and it’s astoundingly beautiful, clearly, so assured, so well-constructed, but has so much fluidity and it feels so organic and so real. And the performances are just absolutely breathtaking. And how Ary and these incredible actors were able to, in such a short amount of time, create the depth in this dynamic the emotional arc of this story. I just was, yeah, I really was like, I just had to reach out to Ary. I think I requested to follow you on Instagram. Okay. That’s great. That’s love expressed, you know what? I’m expressing now and more about how much I loved the film and then I’m just so happy that it is getting the life that it’s having and shown all over the world.

Q) What’s the reaction been like to the film then, Ary, at film festivals? How are people responding to it?

Ary: People respond with lack of words to the film. When I go to festivals and we meet at the end, people come to me and just do this. Okay. Right. They try to speak and they ask, “Can I hug you?” Yes, of course you can hug me. Ah, that’s beautiful, isn’t it? Yeah. How nice. So, what we feel is that the film really touches everyone, not only LGBTQIA plus people, but everyone finds something to relate to or gets emotional about something that it’s personal to them through those characters. So, I think it’s working. Yeah. So, we were saying earlier, it’s quite unusual, this film, you know, because it looks at trans people from a different perspective.

Q) And it’s a different type of story for transgender people. I think there’s one of hope and possibilities, you know? Was that something important make to sure that the story was going to be one of hope?

Ary: For sure. Otherwise, I wouldn’t have made it. When you decide to go through your gender transition, you start to live one of the most terrifying, but at, at the same time, one of the most powerful moments of your life. And being trans, being yourself, it’s great. It’s amazing. It’s wonderful. So, I got caught up on this question, like, why can’t we be portrayed as we feel? I thought it must be because no one is leaving, no one that is making films is leaving these experiences because it’s like one of the most wonderful moments of our lives to become ourselves. And this needs time on screen. This needs love. We need to humanize our experience through love instead of death because, of course, that happens. And this year there were 321 transgender diverse people murdered in the world.

Q) So, tell me a bit about the casting of the film. Obviously, it was important to have a transgender person playing the role. Did you see a lot of actors for it? I mean, did you already have Gaya in mind for that role? 

Ary: For this role would be mandatory to have a trans actress. It’s not just something because of how it is perceived nowadays. It is mandatory. So, for me, it was like decided it wasn’t even a question. I met Gaya while we were working at a nightclub. I worked 11 years at a nightclub doing the lights and Gaya back then worked as a drag queen, as a performer. And we met in this club. And I thought that she could be an amazing person to bring life to this character. So, I decided to change some things in the way this character spoke in order to make it more natural for Gaya to perform it. I really liked the rawness of it. And it’s like, a superstar, as I say, she’s like a monster of acting, and I was very scared to contact her because she’s busy. She has a life, and I am a newbie, very fresh on cinema. But I thought that I could try, and it was a no brainer from the beginning. l always liked What Evil Made so I needed to have this guy on the screen.

Q) Ivo, tell me more about what’s kind of going through Claudio’s head there at that time, because he’s an interesting character. Do you think he’s struggling with his sexuality or is he just curious or what’s going on with him, do you think?

Ivo: I used to live in a neighborhood where at night there’s the street, sort of like a red-light district where there’s a lot of prostitution, and most of it is very much trans and where we shot the film. I used to live there. And I remember the first time when I was a young kid or younger, and I drove with my…I had my first car and stuff, and I drove by at night. And I remember that same sort of look that Gaya does in the film, that my character says, “Please don’t look at me like that.” And I remember what I felt, I remember this huge conflict of uncomfortableness and curiosity. This is what was making me feel and what was making me feel was a mixture of desire, very raw, and then society on top saying, “No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You’re not supposed to feel that.” And I think that the character’s conflict is that it’s what it feels, whatever that is, whatever we all feel. And then society telling us, “No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Don’t do that. Don’t feel that.” And that’s what I really care about – that is what we feel instinctively versus what we’re told we’re supposed to feel. What Ary said back a while ago, it’s so interesting about this finding who you really are, me from a cis heterosexual point of view.

I’m so in tune with that as well, with me finding who I really am without my own sexuality. And what I find challenging and really brought me easily to this material is that to me this film. And it’s not about the trans community. I mean, Ary always said it is but it’s also about how all of the other communities can learn from the example of finding who you really are. Because at the end of the day, of course, with different levels of constraints, we are all totally constrained by society. So, that’s where I place this character in that fight between what he feels and what he can’t feel.

Q) The editing of the film is stunning. Did you know from the start how important that would be to capture a moment rather than just telling a story? So, did you know from the start how important the editing was going to be?

Ary: I didn’t have a specific idea about the editing, but I knew that the film was going to be almost edited by the time it got to the room because of the way it was scripted, because of the way we shot. Everything was very prepared in the editing room. Our challenge was to play with times and looks because the film was already that and we didn’t have more, we didn’t have less. So, it was just me and Sarah trying to find this balance between evil and Gaia, like the time they should look to each other, what look to pick and how to find time within just a night to try to expand and to make it feel more than just that moment.

Q) What I noticed about the editing I think that it’s kind of around the midpoint of the film there’s this beautiful montage where the music kind of takes over and we just kinda see them laughing, and there’s these little looks and glances, and it’s a beautiful score as well. But it’s kind of at that moment, I feel that you’ve won the audience over. And I mean, I remember kind of feeling myself that this is a special film. I think you’ve kind of think that’s where the editing is actually quite powerful. And then there’s more of the story to come, you know? I mean, like in that sequence, is that something that you had in mind from the beginning? Or is that something that came from the edit?

Ary: I think it came later. Shots within this film were not really prepared. Like, with Ivo and Gaia. I had some rehearsals, and we knew what we needed to shoot, but then when we were there on set we tried to just let it roll, let it see what happens now, what happens if he’s just driving and she’s looking now, go and open the window and scream. We did a lot of improvisation within this film, so that the material wasn’t shaped to be in the way. But there is a lot of, improv through the film and that car scene is improv. We are just, okay, let’s talk, let’s do some actions, turn on the radio, turn it off, open the window screen. And we were just playing through that night.

Q) Elliot, what message or emotion would you hope that would linger with audiences that explore An Avocado Pit?

Elliot: Gosh, I guess, I mean, like Ary’s spoken to wanting to make something that is, filled with hope and beauty and highlight something different than we’ve seen before in trans narratives. And I think that’s most certainly what I felt – the beauty lingered, the hope lingered, the sense of agency lingered. So, I suppose that’s what you’d hope audience members would feel leaving, a sense of hope and a sense of self-love.

Q) Elliot, what does it personally mean to you that this movie is getting so much buzz and attention from awards shows? Is it another step in the right direction for the L-G-B-T-Q plus community?

Elliot: Gosh, I mean, I’m just thrilled because I love the film. Like, I’m just like a, a fan, right? I’m a fan of Ary and I’m a fan of Ivo and Gaya. So, that’s kind of where my excitement’s coming from. And then knowing that, yes, it’s getting the reach and people are seeing it and that it happens to be a story that is this important and representation that is needed. And, um, uh, that’s an extremely beautiful thing. And also, it’s just a stunning, a stunning piece of work that you want people to see. It truly is.

Q) I’m kind of curious about your thoughts now in terms of where do you think we’re at now? Like in terms of acceptance and understanding of transgender people?

Elliot: Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. We’re obviously in very, quite frankly, not great times for trans and gender American people. Obviously, we’ve seen progress in many regards. There’s also backlash, and I certainly have hope and I believe that queer and trans liberation will win in the end, and love will win in the end. Yeah. And this film is something that absolutely inspires and celebrates that feeling as well. And it took me a longer fight, I think, like for trans rights than gay and lesbian rights. I remember back, around the Thomas Stonewall and then the first pride march, I think trans people were excluded from it. So, it is been a longer fight, but I’m glad to hear that you’ve got hope for it anyway.

Q) How has An Avocado Pit changed your perspective regarding the L-G-B-T-Q life and how the world can relate to a powerful film like this?

Ary: The film didn’t change my perspective of the community, but I think it is helping other people from outside of the community to change their perspective, seeing trans people as humans and a lot of layers that might not have been considered before for the cinema world. I think it’s a great movie that really can empower a new way, a new narrative. I think that’s it. We do not much talk about this subject. It is a film that it is supposed to, not to change mentalities, but to make you think twice about the trans community, especially with love.

Q) So, this is the first time I’ve seen a short touch the LGBT community with such positivity. Was this intentional?

Ary: I wanted to make a film for a mainstream audience that had a trans character that didn’t die. This was like the main goal. And then how could I make this film in a way that people would cling on it, that would make people sit for twenty minutes and just keep watching it without stop.

Q) Do Larissa and Claudio, the lead characters, share some type of pain and trauma from their past. Do you think that that brings them together in a interconnected way?

Ivo: Well, in the sense that, I mean, all humanity and all human beings have…I guess that there’s always pain and there’s always some sort of trauma. And growing up is always a major challenge. And so we all carry that in that sense. I think we can always have that background. And then we just try to – hopefully, in life you’ll find, I dunno. We all have a couple of relations, even if as quick as this was where you can meet up and bring down some barriers for a short period of time, whether it’s 24 hours or 24 years, I don’t know.

Q) I was wondering was the dialogue scripted or was a lot of that improvised?

Ary: Most of it was scripted.  Most of it was scripted and some was improvised. Yes.

Q) Ivo, did you have much time to get to know each other before the shoot or how do you build that bond?

Ivo: We had a lot of discussions. We had a lot of writing, and we were rewriting and talking about the script, and while talking, while rewriting, we were talking between each other. And there was this very easy chemistry that sort of mirrors the characters. So, in that way, we were very almost blessed in the way how we sorta got along so, so easily. And I believe we were both very curious about each other. And that shows in the film, Right? Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, about, about Maurice’s character then, I mean, I find quite interesting, but she says she’s not a prostitute.

Q) Larissa is clearly hanging out with prostitutes, but you kinda sense that she’s looking for legitimacy in the world or longing to belong, you know? She’s looking for love, like, really, isn’t it? I mean, there’s a line in it where I think someone says, like “Oh, worry about your t**s. You can find a man later,” or something. So, she’s someone who has transitioned socially, I suppose. And maybe her goal is to transition mentally, but also looking for something. Tell me a little bit about her character, Ary, and what you think she’s kind of experiencing going through it?

Ary:  Larissa is very sure of who she is, and she doesn’t want to settle for anything less than what she deserves. She goes to that corner where there are the other sexual workers because they are friends, and she goes there to help them, to give them condoms and to see if everything is okay. It is kind of danger to put this character in this position because even though I make the effort to try to explain that she’s not a sexual worker, not because I have any issues with sexual workers, but because trans women are always represented with that job. And Larissa doesn’t work on that job. But I think it was worth it to create that scene in order to make these kinds of discussions happen after the film. But Larissa goes there, it is a night as every night she goes there a lot to check on her friends. Yes, she’s looking for love. She’s looking for someone that it’s mature and she’s not settling for a man that is still confused – Cláudio is still not sure that wants to be with her when it’s night, but when the sun comes up, he’s not able to hold her hand. So, I would say she’s a, a very powerful woman that is looking for a love What’s interesting she refers to herself as her.

Q) Ary, when you were writing in third person, what was that like?

Ary: Yeah, it’s something more related to Brazilian people – it’s the word they use, it’s a specific identity for trans women in Brazil. It’s a way to kinda detach from themselves and to acknowledge like who they are when they are trying to become even when they have already become that person. They use a lot, this third person to refer. I don’t really know why. It’s somehow easier to understand yourself when you detach from yourself. So, it can be like some kind of exercise that you do in order to see yourself clearly, clearly clear, clearly, clearly, clearly.

Q) Elliot, I know your memoir Page Boy you open up about coming out as trans. I think at six years old you said the first person you said it to was your mother. I imagine there’s gotta be some mental turmoil that a transgender person has to go through and that’s what you relate to in this film.  I’d love to just hear like a little bit about your own experience growing up with that and because when you came out, you were very much in the public eye. Do you think that was more or less difficult?

Elliot: I mean, like, being in the public eye or would it have been easier if nobody knew you? Oh, goodness. It’s so hard where I’m sitting now to say which way it would go, I suppose. But I think, of course, there were many moments where we don’t need to get into you the whole thing now about me, but yeah, I definitely had moments where I was walking back, knowing who I needed to be because of being known and the thought of doing something like this, transitioning in front of so many people, the thought most certainly did overwhelm me. I’m so glad I finally stopped listening to that thought, thank goodness. But one of the things I will say about what is getting in the way, sort of even like earlier, what Ivo you were saying, society doing this and things like this film and more representation and the correct kind of representation, this kind of representation is what’s going to help continue to remove that noise. Because the more I grew up and had access to any kind of queer representation, let alone trans representation, that noise starts to dissipate, or, or it’s that you start to hear the noise, other people are hearing it too, and you feel less alone.

Q) I heard you say something like everyone remembers your incredible Oscar nominated performance from Juno. That memory is like slightly tainted for you because you felt pressured into wearing a dress at the Oscars, you know? So, can you tell me a little bit about the thoughts, like what you’re thinking at that stage and how you feel now? How are you doing these days now since you’ve come out?

Elliot: I mean, making Juno was definitely one of my favorite filmmaking experiences I’ve had. The actual acting, the making it, the collaborative feeling, the taking the producer to a used clothing store and being like, “This is how she’s gonna look,” et cetera. Like, it was a nice vibe I had felt, I felt very respected while making it. But, yes, the sort of aftermath promotional Oscar campaign that period was not fun and made me not wanna act, lose interest in acting. and now I’m in a completely different space, and I am feeling a way I never thought was possible. I feel more inspired than I felt and feel so grateful for community. I mean, that’s really why I’ve managed to get here is community and other trans people that have really supported me. And I feel like I continue to just get connected to more and more amazing people, which I feel so lucky for.

Q) What would you say was the most challenging about producing this, about making this film? Was there anything particularly tricky with making it?

Frederico:  Let me say one thing that I wanted to say it before. And I already knew Ary, but I didn’t knew Ary before. I don’t know, Ary didn’t do anything before this one, this project. So, for me, it was let’s see. The script is great that I didn’t have an idea that that script becomes so, so this huge project, so this huge film. So, but what we talk to each other, me and the driver, let’s help him a lot. Let’s help because it’s film. It’s so good that they gave him all the good crew, the conditions to do this film. And, along the project, I think Andreia, it’s more, he was there on the shooting days.

Andreia: Yes, the thing that was more difficult. I need to say that we are a very small country, as you know, so to have money to shoot it’s to build a project is always this the first pro problem that we need to face. And we have a film institute here that normally is the way that we can get the financing to do the shorts or the features or whatever, everything. So, the thing was this kind of film, this kind of thematics, we knew from the start that it’ll be a problem to have that kind of financing in the institutes, but even though we applied, so we applied with the very big intentions from Marie, and we built the best team that we could – very experienced people, to build everything around him, to let that people of the institutes, because it’s very conservative, I suppose. It’s normal stuff around the world. So, to understand that they need to put money in the film. One of the first problems was that, so we read the script – it was amazing, but we need money to do it, how to do it. And then we had that problem to face and how to step over that big rock in front of us, and we did it. And it was amazing. It was kind of a victory. And I remember Ary saying that to me and to us the film institute, the Portuguese Film Institute, will probably for the first time put money on a project with a trans character as a protagonist and with a trans director. So, that was definitely one thing that marked the film and put us, put us on the right track to everything else. It was like, “We got this,” so now we can get everything we want for the production, the rest of the creative, the normal stuff, of course, that we need to have the locations, the casting and everything. It was like, we are the other casting besides, Gaya and Ivo. So, yes, that was for me the first step and the difficult one. Big challenge. Yeah. Yes, the big challenge.

Q) Ary, what would you hope people will take away after watching this film? What would you like them to come away with after they see it?

Ary: Nothing very specific. But I would like them to look to this film beyond gender. Of course, we have a trans character, but I think it’s important to look at this character as also a human being. So, how can we connect? How can we relate? What can we learn from this duo that it’s on the film and maybe then, I don’t know, to be more friendly, more caring towards transgender people and supporting this community. I think that would really be important for me to see in the world.

 

 

*CONFERENCE CALL*