Cheyenne Jackson & Leslie Jordan – Call Me Kat

By starrymag | September 29, 2022

By: Jamie Steinberg

 

 

 

Q) Leslie, how did they originally describe your character?

Leslie: It was so short lived that the bartender…Actually, it was going to originally be a piano bar and I was going to be the piano player. So it was sort of a mix up of Cheyenne’s character. That only lasted a day because the our Creator Darlene Hunt said, “We’re trying to cast Phyllis.” And it was going to be three girls that cook that commiserate on everything. It would have been the Kyla Pratt character, the Mayim Bialik character and then this new Phyllis and I knew exactly where she was going, because when I read the script, I thought, “I want to play Phyllis! Phyllis gets all the laughs! I want the laughs!” She said, “Would you like on your cell phone just do kind of an audition.” And I said, “I’ll come in! I’ll come in and audition.” So, I went in and auditioned for a show and that afternoon she called, and she said, “Well, he’s now Phil.” And so there wasn’t a lot of time to play other character, but I sure I’m glad it worked out this way. Because I think it’s more fun to have two girls and the gay guy commiserate. Three girls and it’s like, you know, like hen festival. You throw a gay guy in there and all kinds of fun stuff can happen.

Q) Leslie, it’s especially a joy to speak with you after the iconic work you’ve done over the years. You just have such a gift for comedy. Is it something that’s just been an innate ability for you? Or is it something that you’ve worked out over the years? This is such a great vehicle for you as well.

Leslie: Well, I’ve told this story before but when I was about six, I walked out of Sunday school and told my daddy that I was never going back to Sunday school ever again. And he said, “Oh you love Sunday school. Why do you not want to go?” I said, “they laugh at me.” And he explained to me I was about six years old the difference between laughing at me and laughing with me. And he said you’ve got this gift. And he told me this Bible story about hiding my light under a bushel and said, “You’ve got to always, always let that shine.” So, I think it was just something that I innately had. I come from a family of clowns. I mean, we laugh, laugh, laugh, we’ll go out to dinner and I’ll see our family sitting there having a whole meal and not even speaking. I think, “That’s not us! Thank God that’s not us!” We are a family of clowns, but I think it was just the way I am.

Q) I’ve loved you as Beverly Leslie and I certainly love you here in “Call Me Kat” just as much.

Leslie: Well, thank you. I went to Washington DC last week for the Book Festival, the big National Book Festival, and Meghan Mullaly and I. She got to moderate a panel, and I was the only guest on the panel and. We walked on stage. We’ve seen each other in all these years not even laid eyes on each other. And I said, “Well, well well…Karen Walker, I thought I spelled gin and regret.” And she said, “Oh Beverly Leslie, you look more like a woman every time I see you.” So, it was quite a reunion. It was a lot of fun.

Q) In a sitcom called “Call Me Kat” they obviously were focused a lot of time on Mayim’s characters, wants and needs and desires and dreams and yet you guys have constructed – somehow I don’t know how you do it in 22 minutes or whatever – a very rich cast and we feel like we know a lot of characters in this world. So I wanted to ask you guys specifically (if you haven’t been asked sort of for your characters before) what would make your characters happy? What would be the best thing for Phil? What would be the best thing for Max? What would be the best thing for Carter? If it was called “Call me Phil” or “Call Me Max,” what would be the theme for those characters?

Cheyenne: Thanks for that question. I think what our show is really essentially about, and you kind of hit the nail on the head, is really what each of us really wants. I think it’s about six people who are deeply flawed people, like we all are, who are just looking for a community. They’re looking for a family. They’re looking for happiness. And happiness doesn’t look like necessarily what everybody thinks it does. That’s why Kat has had this whole trajectory that she’s had. I mean, for me, specifically, Max is definitely going through midlife crisis doesn’t know who he is. He’s in his 40s now, still working at the bar. He just wants to be happy. And he is aging and he’s feeling the tick of time. And that’s what I think we’ve done successfully in this season is really hone in on really the six of us and what we want out of life and what I’m really excited about for Phil’s character is we’re finally going to start finding out about his personal life and dating as a lady of a certain age.

Leslie: Yeah, I think the beauty of this show is that they have over the last three years… And this is almost like our season. This is the premiere is our year. You found that out with “Seinfeld,” “Friends” – a lot of shows didn’t kick no third season. It takes a while. But all our characters are so finely developed and developed towards each of our actor sills. I mean, no one else can do what Phil does. No one else can do what Max does. And I just love what we call a table read, which happens every Wednesday with a brand new script, just to see where we’re going with this. Because we’ve now got 22 episodes to have fun with and we have gotten the best writers in the business. They have assembled a writing crew that seriously it’s the best in the business. Each and every one of them have such a resume. And so get ready. Get ready.

Q) I’m in Louisville, Kentucky. And I have been writing about your show since I interviewed Darlene and I also interviewed Amy Hibbs from Etown because you have this huge following here because it’s supposedly set in Louisville. I was watching the first episode of season three, I thought, “Oh, I hope there’s still something from Louisville there.” We watch like, oh is there a Muhammad Ali’s shirt on somebody? Is there a Louisville Cardinals this or that in. So, even though they’re gone will you be able to continue the Louisville theme in some ways?

Cheyenne: I know that for the creators, they’ve definitely tried to pepper as much as they can for folks like you. Obviously, it’s set there. I mean, I’ve never been there. I would love to go but, yeah, I noticed in costumes if I have a Cardinals hat, or whatever it is, even if it’s just a reference to something like a local business or something. Yeah, I know that we’ve definitely tried.

Leslie: I exercised racehorses before I started acting. So, I was in Lexington and you know what I want to happen. I want us all to come to the derby. I think they could have amazing publicity out of that if we all showed up in our hats and everything and did the whole Derby thing. I don’t know if that woman still gives that big Derby party. Oh, yeah, I was around Louisville for quite some time. And then also I’m involved now with Saddlebred horses and Louisville is actually decided to race horses. The Saddlebred which are the highest show horses, the Saddlebred capital of the world. I’ve been up there looking to buy a horse. They’re very expensive. So it’s going to be fourth or fifth season before I get Saddlebred.

Q) What do you think we should all look forward to and Season Three in general? What are you most excited about on an appreciating about the new season?

Cheyenne: Leslie really kind of got me going about in a train of thought and thank you for this question. Shows take a minute. And we started this show in the middle of a pandemic. We’ve still yet to have a live audience. We have been the whole first season through masks and shields. We were just trying to figure our way out. And when we came out, we got a pretty, pretty bad critical response across the board. And I think a lot of it was fair. I totally think that that’s just the way shows go and shows take a minute. However, what we’ve been able to do over these last two years, like Leslie said, is with these showrunners and with these writers who are at the top of their craft truly create real people who are going through real things this season. Swoosie’s character who is dealing with issues that come with aging. We’re dealing with Mayim’s character who is trying to have a baby in her 40s by herself. So we’re still serving you up great comedy, we’re still doing all these things, but I would make the argument that what we’re doing is is on par with any multicam comedy on the air right now. And I think we kind of got lost in the shuffle at the beginning because = it took us a minute, but we found it and what I’m excited is for people to feel that. We’re on set like, “Oh my god, it’s finally great.” And that’s what I’m excited for people to experience.

Leslie: And I agree. It’s like a new show. We want we want people that if you saw us early on and you’re like, “Maybe this isn’t my cup of tea,” but revisit us. Come see us now. Because if the indication of the response of just…It’s so hard to not have an audience. You know, it’s like telling a joke at a party and nobody laughs. Okay, and sometimes we have script girls and stuff that will tell us, “You got to hold here because we’re going to put the laugh,” or they’ll argue about where the laugh is going to be. And I say, “The laugh is going to be where we put it.” It’s not like we’re waiting on an audience. And so they’re gonna put the laugh where they think the laugh would be. What a crazy, crazy thing to be shooting a three camera with nobody there. But I think we’re now at a point where we, we made the decision (and we were asked about it if we wanted to audience) and because we have cats, you know you can’t have all those cats with an audience. They’d go crazy. We were just so used to work in the way we’re working, that we didn’t have an audience this year and will we the next year. I don’t know. But we have so much fun just us,  just our little group. And I think, “If I can get that cameraman to laugh over there, who sits there – he’s been doing it for 100 years. If I can get that old curmudgeon to laugh – it’ll happen you. You catch him off guard or something. So I’m so proud is so proud of the show, right so people find it.

Q) Can you tease a little bit about what’s to come this season for your characters – their ups and downs of their love life this season?

Cheyenne: Max is really in the middle of, I think, an existential crisis. They’ve kind of pitched me what’s going to happen throughout the course of his year. I can’t get super into the weeds on that one but there’s some major life stuff happening that me, Cheyenne, as a dad, as a husband, as a performer, I’m really excited to get to jump into – stuff I’ve never been able to address and stuff I’ve never been able to play. And of all the things I’ve been able to do, I’m getting to be able to do some pretty amazing subject matter. So definitely the love life and all that plays a part of it. Kat is trying to have a baby. I think we’ve announced that Parker Young from “United States of Al” is potentially or one of her donors. And so there’s a lot to unpack in that world.

Leslie: Oh my gosh. Well Phil falls in love with a wonderful female impersonator that he goes to see named Queen Dicktoria. It’s John Griffin, who’s just such a wonderful actor. And he plays both Jaylen who’s Queen Dicktoria out of drag. And then I meet him out of drag and fall for him then, too. So it’s really cute, cute storyline. I’ve never, in all my 40 years in working, I don’t think I’ve ever had a storyline where I had a love interest. You know, I’m just the funny guy who comes with the zinger. So, it really throws me. I read that and go, “Oh my gosh! Are we going to kiss?! I’ve never kissed in front of a camera.” [laughs] But it’s just it’s so well written. I mean, I got teary eyed the other night because like I said this John Griffin is a wonderful actor. They put the word out that they wanted a love interest that was going to be in drag. They got 278 takes from agents all over Los Angeles to play Phil’s love interest. So to me that shows the interest not only in the show, from these agents and everybody, but how interesting that character was when they read the scripts. 278 audition tapes that they waited through. And the reason I think that they hired John Griffin was he’s not bitchy. You always think if there’s gonna be a female impersonator, she’s got to be bitchy. It’s not that at all. so beautiful and so I’m really looking forward to that seeing Middle America reaction. We’ll see…

Q) Let’s get some more “American Horror Story” vets.

Cheyenne: I’m working on that. I want Leslie Grossman to come on as my sister.

Q) I have a stupid head that does not look good in any sort of hat. So, I wanted to ask about the process of finding the perfect cowboy look for the premiere.

Cheyenne: I love a hat and I love a costume. I have six-year-old twins and I share every step of the process whether I’m playing an 80 year old man one day or a clown or whatever it is -wearing a diaper – whatever it is they asked me to do. But, yeah, I think the cowboy that whole is kind of storyline is really fun. I grew up in northern Idaho. And now I’m kind of on the show looking like the people that I went to school with. So, yeah, we wanted to get a cowboy hat that was a little bit too big, like annoyingly too big like you like clearly you’ve just got that hat that’s brand new. So, we wanted it to be a little too big, a little too obnoxious, because Max is obnoxious towards the beginning of the season. So, yeah, Carla, who creates all these costumes she knocks it out of the park and I just show up and put it on.

Q) Leslie, you did mention a little bit about your recent reunion with Megan Mullaly. Would you be open to a Karen/Beverly spin off if that was ever pitched?

Leslie: Oh my gosh, absolutely. But I got a job to do. I got a job that is gonna last a long time. But wouldn’t that be fun? Yes, I would absolutely be open. We talked about that. We said, “You know, wouldn’t it be fun?” And she hadn’t even come up with a Broadway show. She told the story that I really did forgotten about. She came up with this idea called Karen: The Musical. And the funny thing is she never asked me can I sing. I mean, I can kind of but they were going to do she had this idea. And she had already found like investors and she had found a producer and the director that went on to do something like Spring Awakening – this big director. She was ready to go and the network put the kibosh on it because they said look, we’re trying to sell the rights, the syndicated rights for the show right now and God forbid it flopped we can’t have you guys out there. But we looked at each other and thought we could still maybe do that – Karen: The Musical.

Q) You mentioned before the show’s evolved since Season 1 and I’m always interested in the evolution especially in this case, where you know it’s changed showrunners in each season. Can you track it in those terms? Is it the case of where you can see, “Okay, there’s now a new showrunner and the sensibility of the show has changed the tone of the show that changed, the humor of the show has changed” or is it subtler than that?

Cheyenne: It’s everything. It’s all of those things. It really began the way it began. And we did the best we could and there were definitely moments of magic and with Mayim’s incredible physical comedy and Kayla’s electricity and Julian’s energy. And you know Swoosie and Leslie just crushing it. Definitely, although the elements were there, but we just were trying to find I think the tone. Also the direct comparisons to “Miranda” were tricky because that’s a British show with a different sensibility and a different star. So, I think we were all trying to figure out what is this thing. As new showrunners came in and put their own stamp on it we slowly – I think it was kind of a slow process, but it needed to be because during that we have each of us, like Leslie said earlier, we have found our character’s voice. For instance, in the first season, if we were in a group scene, if there was a line about I don’t know, just a show that somebody had seen like “Hey, anyone watch that? They could have given it to any of us now. They know each of our voice so specifically that we can all say, “Oh, no, no, definitely Julian would say that” or “I don’t think Phil’s character.” We we have such ownership of these characters now. And the ability and the chance to be able to play a character for now in its third season, I just am so, so grateful to Michael Thorne and everybody at Fox – Charlie and everybody – the faith that they put in us because they see what we’re doing and they see how far we’re digging and what we’re coming up with. So, I think it’s been a slow progression, but I think it needed to be.

Leslie: t’s interesting because we, as actors, sometimes are not privy to the writers room. They kind of come in on the days we do our run throughs and stuff, but we’re not like…As an actor, I kind of like that. I don’t want to get too involved with them. ButI know that we have gotten to a point where even as actors we know, like Cheyenne said, who should be saying and it was it was only recently that we realize how few times we had all been in a scene together, like all of us sitting at the bar. And we’d looked at each other and said, Wow, this has not really been happened a lot. And this season it does. We’re together. We’re we’re together at the bar. When there’s a problem it’s all of us there. When there’s something going on. We’re all there. It wasn’t always like that. It was a story, the b story, and you had to have this character doing this. Now we’re all really involved with one another’s goings on and we realize immediately and Mayim is so generous. And I’m a line hog, give me a line give as many lines as you want and she’ll say, “I think Leslie would say this.” So, it’s, “Okay, okay.” I will. She’s so generous with that – because she’s the lady I think she should have. The other day we were taking a big group picture and I said, “Get the middle!” She said, “No, no, you and Swoosie get in the middle,” and I said, “No, you get  in the middle!” So, we took a picture where you barely see Mayim on the side and here I am and Swoosie in the middle. I think what has happened is we’re just having fun. Oh my gosh we’re having fun.

Cheyenne: I want to just add one final thing to that you just made me remember. The day before yesterday, Mayim and I had an epic shoot – many, many, many emotional, physical scenes. Physical comedy or whatever. And I was watching her. Everybody knows Mayim to be a great comedian. Everybody knows that she’s a great physical comedian and that she’s a brainiac, right? We call her like, she’s half ninja, half Jewish mother and half computer, right? She just is this incredible thing. But what I think she is underrated as is a dramatic actress. And she was crushing these scenes and truly like so great and that is when I’m really excited for people to see – that side of her because we know she can do this, tis and this and she did amazing work on “Big Bang” and all of that. But at this time in her life, who she is now, I don’t know. It’s a different thing. So I’m excited for that as well.

Q) I was wondering if this season, either you Cheyenne or Leslie were hoping to share more scenes with someone in particular, maybe someone who you haven’t shared that many scenes with so far? And if you’ve got a chance to work with them more this season?

Leslie: Him.

Cheyenne: Yeah, same.

Leslie: They’ve given us scenes, which is an interesting – this big butch, straight guy with a cowboy hat and there’s a sweetness there, you know, that he kind of puts up with because I’m kind of annoying, and I obviously have a huge crush on him.

Cheyenne: [laughs]

Leslie: So, every time he comes around I’m just giddy, and they’ve written really fun stuff for us.

Cheyenne: Yeah, I would also say Leslie. I always hope that there’s gonna be stuff with Phil. And just the characters, Max and Phil, are so different but Leslie and I are such buddies in real life. And we’re both gay guys. So, we have our own little special connection and we both been on “American Horror Story” and we have our own world. So, definitely there is a little electricity with us in the in the scenes that we put on our character hat and sometime…

Leslie: We talk dirty. [laughs]

Cheyenne: Yeah, we do. You have to have one person that can see you can still tell a blue joke to.

Q) I know that you’ve both talked about it takes a little while for a show to get its legs and get going. And I know part of that was starting out during the pandemic, which I’m sure effected how much you could see each other off set during that early time of filming. How has the off camera relationships and dynamics shifted from the beginning of filming until now?

Leslie: We can take our masks off now if we’re at the table doing a reading when it’s your scene. We’re allowed to take our mask off on the set, like if it’s just actors because we’ve all been tested and retested but the minute you step where the cameras are and everything, you have to be masked up. So, it’s just crazy and I’m the worst. I’m the one that yell at constantly, “Put your mask on,” because I just don’t think in those terms and how can you act when you can’t see somebody? All we’ve seen are eyebrows. It’s just crazy.

Cheyenne: We did start our whole relationship over zoom, everybody. It was like we were dating on these apps and we were just like seeing each other’s faces. And so we all fell in love just on Zoom kind of. And so then when we finally got to see each other in person, it’s a deeper connection because it’s very intimate Zoom. I can see behind you I can see on your shelf. We’re in each other’s homes, right. So, it’s been it’s been really, really nice to slowly open that up a little.

Q) Cheyenne, something you said before about how these characters are looking for family. And it struck me when you said that that individually…I don’t want to get too deep on it. But individually, perhaps each one of these characters could in their own way be a little bit sad. And yet, through their absolute determination, to not be they have sort of found each other. I’m wondering does that does that make sense to you? It struck me as you were saying about that search for family.

Cheyenne: Yes. I’ve always said that from the very beginning that I find each all six of us to be innately have a sense of sadness and have a sense of loneliness really looking for whatever it is it’s going to complete them. Kat whether it’s a degree or her business or affection from her mom. Like everybody it’s they’re getting very specific about that. So that is what I love what they’re really doing this year. It’s really just people going through problems that the whole world is going through and done in a respectful and really funny way. And finally writing for each of our own strengths. I love the idea of people finding their family. When I came out a queer kid in northern Idaho, I had to immediately…I wasn’t in the church anymore. And I had to find my own family and I found a group of people in Spokane that kind of became my family and that’s Kat’s Cat cafe. That’s kind of it for these folks. And I really think that’s a universal, really special relationship

Leslie: I think that people are going to really get ready for Swoosie Kurtz. Oh my god ready for Swoosie. We know what a brilliant actress she is from all her password. We’ll get ready for Swoosie Kurtz this these and this is our this is her big coming out and they’ve really written for Sheila. They’ve read they’ve done for all of us, but I’ll do a St. Lucie and I forget my line because I’m just watching her.

Q) I wondered obviously they’re trained but cats are still animals. Do you have any crazy stories kind of something going unexpected in that regard?

Cheyenne: Yeah, the very first episode we did. My M had to sing to a cat she had to sing carry Katy Perry’s “Firework” and the cat’s name was Firework. And no one told her was that the cat didn’t like to be looked at didn’t like to be touched and definitely didn’t like to be sung to. Every time Mayim would start singing she’d go “Baby, you’re a..” and the cat would go [hiss]. And over and over. And finally Mayim was holding the cat out. Finally we had to put the cat on the counter and Mayim had to like sing across. Yeah, so the cat trainers do this little thing this little [noise] – it’s like a little little tap on the on its nose and they backup and it’s supposed to keep them in spot. And a lot of times it does but I don’t know I tried that on my kids and it does not work.

Leslie: [laughs] We have this one cat named Monty that is my favorite. And there’s Monty and then this like escape artists. You know they know that right when the scene starts that can take off or something. But they do respond or you can’t train the cat like you said, but they’ll pop up like you said and give them a treat and they will sit still on their little perch. But I love them. The more the merrier.

Q) I love that this show tackles so many life lessons in a comedic and light hearted way. For both of you, what is one thing that you’ve learned since you started working on the show?

Leslie: I’ve learned to be more giving as an actor. I’m always the scene stealer. I’m always I’m the funny guy that comes with this thing or and I’m always showing out. And this but on this I can’t do that. I have to give and that’s to be a worker among workers has turned into a wonderful thing and I watch myself. Now I didn’t like to watch myself at all but I can watch myself now because there I am just like being normal, like a normal human being.

Cheyenne: Yeah, thank you for this question. I actually really appreciate this question because I don’t know if it’s emotional today or what’s happening but…I just I’ve never done a multicam comedy before. And I come from the theater world. And I take my work very, very seriously. Tina Fey always told me “comedy is serious business.” And so I take it all very seriously. And when I got on this show, I just thought…They’re always telling me “Cheyenne, your back. You’re in the way of the camera.” I wasn’t aware of all the different things. And I had a judgment about what situation comedy was. I thought it was silly, and kind of maybe just not as serious as some like “Succession” or something. You know, I had a judgment about it. And what I’ve learned from being on the show is that this work is important. This work matters. There is an audience for this work, and we put our heart and our soul into these stories. And yes, we are not tackling the hugest pantheon of socio economic things happening in the world or political upheaval, but what we’re doing is providing joy, and we’re providing escape, and our reach is far. Speaking of “Succession,” at the me part of the other night the actress who plays Jerry wanted a picture with me! Me – from this show! And I was like, people watch the show and people love this show. We talked about it all the time on the show, but we feel like we didn’t really get our fair shake the first season and I get why. But now we’re there. And so I’ve learned that what we’re doing is important and it makes people really happy and what else? What can be better than that?

 

*CONFERENCE CALL*