Craig Bierko – UnREAL

By: Jamie Steinberg

Q) What are the recent projects that you are working on?

A) My writing partner, Kevin Arbout and I have just written some stuff and he just had a film that won the Geena Davis Film festival for the movie Fair Market Value. We’re working on a bunch of projects together. We have some producers interested. As far as acting is concerned, I just sort of threw myself into “UnREAL” and the preparation for this was kind of intense because I had to lose like fifty pounds. I got the script the week before and started memorizing my lines. When I stepped on the sound stage about two years ago, I stepped right onto a treadmill and started running 5ks and doing my burpees. It shed off faster than I thought it would. I just want to keep it going because it feels terrific and is an interesting aspect to the character. The great thing about the script, for example when I got it and my agent Iris Grossman said she was going to send me a script from Lifetime about two women who run a reality Bachelor like reality show. I was doing a play at Vassar College and I thought, “This is it. It’s over!” I read the script and then I had to read it again because I thought I liked it. Then, I liked it even more and I realized why I liked it was because I’m not a big fan of these shows (which is an ndrstandstatement0. I understood them and I had seen the season of The bachelor with Juan Pablo. That I found interesting and it wasn’t because of the show. It was because he seemed like a maniac. He was like this sociopath and these girls were still climbing all over each other to get to him. I’m not a doctor, but I do play a lawyer on TV (or have played one). So, my diagnosis of him being a sociopath is pure conjecture. I’m sure he’s a perfectly nice guy. On a human level, as a guy, I thought this is the problem. That’s why when we meet a girl we need to work a little bit harder because there are guys like this in the world. It’s what he chose to say when he had a couple of minutes of quiet time on the plane. Lately on “UnREAL,” it’s characters saying shit like that to each other. The time they are with Graham, you see tem turn on their charm and they become as fatuous and thin as Graham is playing (essentially a game show host). That’s what I find really interesting. I just find that absolutely incredible. That’s the heart of the show – who are these people.

Q) What made you want to be a part of “UnREAL?”

A) If I want to get a good gage on the show, I talk to people who aren’t fans of “The Bachelor.” If you like The Beatles, you’re going to watch The Beatles Anthology and you’ll love it whether it is bad or good. If you are not a fan of The Beatles, then it better be one hell of a documentary to sustain your interest because it was ten hours long. Well, our show when you put the episode together is ten hours long. That’s what people have been doing with this show. I know guys who don’t have girlfriends who seat buckle them into the couch who watch The Bachelor. They watch this show and not only do they not have girlfriends and some of these guys are assholes. They just like good television and good storytelling. That was what happened when I read the script. I liked it because it almost had nothing to do with making reality TV. It had to do with the reality of love and the story we tell ourselves. There is an element of genius to it because in lesser hands the show would have been a parody. It would have been all Graham – all that note that Graham (Brennan Elliot) plays when the camera comes on. What is most fun is seeing (Graham is an avatar for all of us) because when the lights go off you see Graham boot down like a robot. The light goes out in his eyes and he slumps down.

Q) Did you pick Sarah’s [Gertrude Shapiro] mind to get into Chet’s mindset?

A) I think part of the reason we get along so well is because you want to be the person answering the question and not answering it. The person who answers is the one having fun in the conversation so the other person has to shut up and listen because we both love to talk. When I talk to her on the phone and she pitched the idea of this character she wrote, I got her. You never know what a show is going to be. Nobody does. You can’t just be witty, smart or a good writer. Something with Sarah understands why she couldn’t do reality television anymore. She had enough distance away that she was able to quantify reasons and assemble them with dramatic structure and impose this dramatic matrix on them. Then, do what a lot of people don’t have the guts to do – send their own story out into the machine and it isn’t often kind. Lifetime was before, more than any other network or outlet, was enthusiastic. This was the first thing Sarah pitched. She flew down to Austin and by the time she got off the plane her agent called and said they were desperate and would do anything to get this. She never had pitched anything before.

Q) We are seeing Chet trying to get in control of the show again. How will his dynamic shift this season?

A) If you notice the beginning of the show, every single character is doing well – down to the bachelor. He is in a limo and on his way to amend a mistake (which is arguable as to whether it should be even considered a mistake). “Bitch please” is like saying “oh come on now.” It doesn’t mean anything. But like every character, they start at a really great place and then almost by the first commercial break their live begin to shred and fall apart. And war is declared! The scariest thing about being at war on the corporate level is that there are no weapons, it’s done with whispering campaigns. So, you’ll never know if your closest comrade is your worst enemy. The fun of the show is that the people love the friendship between Quinn (Constance Zimmer) and Rachel (Shiri Appleby). In a lot of other ways, it is Butch and Sundance and in other ways it is Butch and the law or a gun that fires backwards. This is all my opinion, but every single person featured on the show has very serious personality abnormalities. Psychopaths, histrionics sexuality, etc. I think to a point every single character has that. The thing about those people, there was a moment where one of the characters asks Quinn “How do you live with some of the things you do people?” The writers were smart enough not to write any lines, but have Quinn turn slowly to the character and then slowly turn away. It’s fascinating to me that these people are producing a show about the one thing that they’ll never have. Maybe that’s the reason they go there in the first place because the next best thing is to be around love even if it is bogus. They create love, but they are not capable of it.

Q) Is it that psychology that draws you to these kinds of characters?

A) As you can tell, I’m kind of a geek about this stuff. It feeds me as an actor because most directors (and Peter gets it too) will direct you to “go over there and say this.” There is a reason they do that and it is because television moves so fast that there isn’t really time to get into a lot of the stuff that you get into with theater. That’s why I was so amazed and loved working with Shiri. I’ve known her for years and the reason she is such a good director is A) she is such a good actor and worked on so many sets and worked with so many great directors that she has realized there is so much to say to an actor that you would never be able to say it in one sentence. You have to get back and worry about the hundred other things that you have to worry about. B) She has the natural sense of what makes people tick. God help the director that doesn’t understand that nature that these people have. When I’m playing a villain, I have to figure out why they want what they want, even if they are blowing up a town. I have to find something in me or what experience I have had. I’ve hurt someone’s feelings because I felt their feelings deserved to be hurt. That’s a sick moment for me. Your feelings get away from you and I’ve gone back and had to make apologies because I’m human and who hasn’t done that. These people don’t see any reason to say I’m sorry or even feel the slightest remorse, except Shiri. The reason I think this is a show about Shiri…Everyone is saying that it is a show about two girls, but really in my mind it is a show about Shiri. Quinn turned around and starred this person down instead of saying she lives with it because that would make her human. She lives with it because she is in so much pain that she can’t not do this. She can’t hold all of this ins. None of these characters can. That’s why Chet needs something to be obsessed with outside of his body – drugs, exercise and now apparently hating women. Everybody has that, but Rachel does have borderline personality disorder. They will do awful things and if someone points out to them or they notice they have a problem (and it is rare) and they go find a shrink that is going to help them. They do have a technique though to get to them and a way to get them to see who they are. When they get glimpses of themselves and experience shame, that moment of shame in the hands of the right person is their window to sanity. That’s why I think Shiri is the center of the show. Quinn and I are like Macbeth – we are basically the devil. And the show is hell. Quinn went there because of what she did in the first season. In that, Quinn saw the makings of the next her – someone to groom. What she doesn’t understand is that Rachel doesn’t just have a devil on her shoulder. She has an angel on her shoulder as well and that was shown through Jeremy. She was in love with somebody who was good for her. This season she is going to meet someone else that is going to be quite different. Josh Kelly is terrific. He’s in a lot more pain this season and he is so subtle. I can’t speak highly enough of this cast.

Q) What are some moments you are most excited for fans to see this season?

A) There is a scene we filmed where it is Graham and B.J. [Britt] and one of the girls where something happens that is going to be one of those “water cooler moments.” Both BJ and Graham had to improvise something. They love for us to improvise because they get real moments. The stuff that Graham was doing and BJ…I told him, this is why I do this. A) I grew up watching moments like that and B) I’m striving for moments like that. That’s what I want my life to be. I’m so proud of him and the whole cast is like that. When there are props to be given, it’s not just actors who get a bad rap (and most of the time it is deservedly so), but it is also just people. It’s almost impossible for people to see somebody do something extraordinary. It’s so rare that someone without any reward – for just the sake of doing it – says good job. That’s why I love this cast. Most of the shows I have done, you do a scene and move on. If you do something extraordinary it goes unrecognized. Everyone is doing such excellent work on this show that I think a lot of us are going to look back at this as this is some of our best work. The camera is pointing at actors that are madeup to look their best and are given lines to say that are written by some of the funniest and smartest people in Hollywood on a show where it clicks and works. Peter was the one who created the look of the show which was the perfect marriage for the tone of the scrip tand the most extraordinary television crew I’ve ever come across because they are as hard working and nice as they are excellent. If you look closely, you’ll see bright television screens in a control room that is so dark that they appear to be just floating in space. That subconsciously says to me that you aren’t in a good world right now where the most important images are false and being manipulated by people who only wish they could be half as happy as the people they are manipulating. That is Peter O’Fallen who I personally believe had as much to do as the show getting picked up by Lifetime as anybody else – including Constance, Shiri, myself and the writers. I think we’re all doing great work and I’m proud of all us.

Q) What do you think it is that has made “UnREAL” so popular?

A) You can’t blame a shark for eating your leg. You went into their world. You went into the world where monsters eat legs. You can’t blame anybody who spent any time on “Everlasting” and then comes back for another season. Jeffrey Bowyer-Chapman is another great actor and I get to do more with him this season. We butt heads a little bit and I would say that he doesn’t have borderline personality disorder. I would say that it is because he is black and there is not a lot of job options in TV for a black person. He is working in television, he is black and he turns away from a lot of mean shit he sees on the show. He does a lot of mean stuff and it’s because you have to survive there or they’ll fire you. On “Everlasting,” I think he might be the only sane person there and maybe the same with Shia who didn’t make it to the second season. She did something bad and then had remorse for what she did. Someone who feels remorse and compassion and love is of no use to Quinn because she is looking for utensils to eat the meal with – not human beings. Genevieve is another one. I think the scene between her and Meagan [Tandy] was extraordinary. Genevieve [Buechner] makes me laugh so much. She’s a funny person. There are certain people I work more with and I hadn’t worked with her a lot. When I watched that scene between her and Meagan, with how difficult it was to ask the question…Really what you are watching is someone who is either choosing to be a Jedi or go to the dark side. That’s quite a moment. I do think we watched the birth of the devil with that. There are a few of those moments in every episode, even for the people already on the dark side. Are they going to jump or stay behind? That’s why I think people watch the show. I do think it is expertly written, but also because everybody can relate to that.

Q) Genevieve has had quite a season so far and we are only three episodes in!

A) Genevieve thought the way to the top was blowing the boss. And Quinn doesn’t let me forget that. [laughs] That’s not the way. Quinn is now the boss and you don’t do that by playing with her rhubarb. You do it by doing what Quinn tells you to do and what she is telling you to do is something that no human being who is thinking straight or has any morals would even consider doing.

Q) Would you be interested in maybe writing an episode for Season Three of the show?

A) I thought about that. I would very much like to do that and I haven’t asked Sarah yet. I haven’t watched the entire first season yet. [laughs] I tend not to watch my own stuff. I would have to watch everything and then make that decision. Also, I’m in the midst of writing two other pieces. So, it would be difficult. I would love to do something like that. We’re this kind of cast that if like Shiri is watching a scene (that maybe she is not even in) and has an idea, she can approach the actor and suggest something. Usually, she is right. She has an uncanny instinct. For most actors, that’s very bad form to talk about another actor’s performance – even if it is a happy suggestion. The protocol is to go to the director and the director does it. With Shiri, I don’t mind it because we are so close and she has my best interest in mind. I would love to write an episode. I would probably want to let another season happen and then begin writing something for season Four. It’s a possibility. They would have to see a sample of my writing. They wouldn’t just let me do it. I feel like I have a good grip on the world. Once I learn what next season is going to be, if I feel like I connect to it then I can write it.

Q) Is there an aspect of Chet’s life you’d like to see explored?

A) Everybody responded so favorably to Breeda Wool and gave her a YouTube series (“The Faith Diaries”). One thing I was going to pitch to Sarah was to let me use Madison and Jeremy (Josh Kelly) and give us a small crew and a week in the wilderness so we can show me training at this camp that I went to. They can watch me make those changes – physically and spiritually. I think they showed a little bit of the ritual – just a glimpse of it. I think it would be interesting. Sarah and I did talk a little bit about what that world would be and there just wasn’t time to show it. This show is really a love story about two women and if you don’t want to look at it as a love story then you can look at it as a devil fighting a woman who is still fighting not to give up her goodness.

Q) What do you want to be sure “UnREAL” fans know about Chet?

A) I love playing bad guys. I played a bad guy in 1996 and it is almost exclusively the type of character I play now, which is fine with me. They are the most interesting parts. At the end of the day, on a TV show certainly, even if you are playing a bad guy at the end of the day you want to leave people in a good mood. That’s what TV is all about. Lifetime is taking a different tactic because these are unlikable people. When they are getting what they want, it’s not particularly good for the rest of the world. For me, what I would say about Chet is that he isn’t the bad guy. He is you and me. You and I have our pain. I go through shit that gives me pain. You go through shit that gives you pain. The question is what do you do? Do you go to the gym? Do you go to your friends? Do you smoke something? The feeling will go away a lot faster if you smoke something, but the difference is that if you go to the gym or talk to friends you are going to be able to use that bad thing and pull something good out of it. When you go numb, you put yourself on freeze and then you pick up where you left off once the drug wears off. I think that Chet looked in the mirror and said, “I have to use another switch.” The reason I think he isn’t changing is like when an alcoholic stops drinking. That’s when it gets scary because that’s when you are going to need it. A lot of people start drinking when they are fourteen years old. So, you are going to meet a thirty-five year old fourteen year old. That’s scary, but that’s the kind of guy you meet.