For All Mankind – Krys Marshall & Wrenn Schmidt

By: Lisa Steinberg

Q) We see up at Jamestown this photo of Dani and Gordo that says “Don’t be this example.” And no one ever addresses it. Tracy sees it and Gordo sees it, but neither of them say anything to anyone about it.  What does this say about the value of Dani’s sacrifice and what does it speak to about how women are treated in the space program, especially women of color?

Krys: Lisa, you got a keen eye there because seeing that early on really burned my biscuits!  What does that say?  It says that, first of all, no good deed goes unpunished.  I think we all know that.  But it also goes the sort of unfair examination and microscopic lens that women are put under.  That women of color are put under. We see Gordo (Michael Dorman) who has let himself go, who has taken to the bottle, who can barely get through a speech at a Rotary Club without asking the waitress for another cocktail.  We see Ed (Joel Kinnaman) be sort of emotionally eruptive and, at one point, he holds a man hostage.  I mean, we see these guys really screw up left and right and yet their misgivings are under the guise of locker room talk or boys will be boys.  It’s a real bummer because for Dani, she does this incredibly valiant effort to protect her friends and she is punished for it a decade later.  She is not seen as the first Black woman on the moon or the first Black person on the moon.  She is seen as the example of what not to do.  So that is frustrating.

One of the things that I love about Dani is that she is a whole lot more heroic than I am.  And she knows going into it that it’s not going to be easy for her.  She knows she will always be seen as the girl who screwed the pooch up there and she does it anyway.  That’s what makes her a hero.  So, as we see her in Season Two, we see her in many ways reclaim her time and remind everybody that she got there for a reason because she is damn good at what she does.  She is not going to play second fiddle anymore.  She is not going to apologize for her abilities anymore.  She is going to get in the driver’s seat.  I mean, I just adore Dani.  I think everyone’s story is delightful, but I just love playing Dani.

Q) Wrenn, in Season One Margo said that in ten years she would be running NASA and in Season Two we see she has gone from engineer to director. She has always been this woman who has compartmentalized and kept her vulnerability guarded. Yet in her new position she continues to be tested.  How does Margo really balance the expectations put upon her between the military side, the political side, and her own intuitions?

Wrenn:  It’s really interesting that you bring that up because I think in some ways Margo is a lot more confident this season.  I think there is definitely still the learning curve and dealing with the military, that’s a long learning curve. [laughs]  And also dealing with politicians and people who are constantly jockeying for a position.  I think that’s still somewhat foreign to Margo.  In the first season one of the things that Margo really struggled with was that so much of that stuff to her was not about the work, to her it was an obstacle.  I think in some ways Margo is at peace with the terms of to be in this job, if you’re going to be the custodian of JSC, you have to be able to balance your true passion and love, which is the exploration of space and Science and all of that in the purest sense with the fact that yeah, the military is here.  And what are you going to do to protect the people that are up on the moon that are from JSC.  And, also, part of how we get funding is from the government and you have to deal with those people.

I feel like in some ways Margo’s a lot better than that.  But I certainly don’t think by any means that she is a master.  I think she struggles quite a bit because also she’s put in so many situations where she is like, “Well this is the right answer, and this is the answer that’s not going to get me in hot water.” And I feel like there is no good answer if you’re Margo in those situations.  That was really fun to explore.  And to also just see Margo feel like being a little bit vulnerable was not as much of a liability this season because I think similarly to what Krys was saying, but from a different perspective, Margo says it to Molly (Sonya Walger) in the first season. She’s like, “You have to be perfect.  You just have to be perfect.”  Women are held to a different standard.  They just are.  I feel like even though our show is an alternate space history drama, that was true then on our show, and it was also true in real life.  I think to this day, female politicians, the needle that they are trying to thread.

Krys:  She’s unlikeable!  She’s unlikable! [laughs]

Wrenn:  Her hair is this and she should be doing this!  She should be doing that!  Why did she wear that?  Her makeup looks bad.  I feel like everybody can agree that Bernie Sanders at the Inauguration wearing his mittens, everybody loved that.  He was not necessarily bringing his…

Krys:  His fashion A game. [laughs]

Wrenn: [laughs] But nobody is really like Bernie let people down.  So, yeah, I think there is a double standard there that is really tricky.

Q) Well Wrenn, I have loved the relationship development that we have seen between Aleida and Margo. Like we said, as much as Margo has compartmentalized and has been guarded, she still has this side where she wants to mentor Aleida. What does this relationship really signify for Margo?

Wrenn:  I think in a lot of way for Margo, until she understands why, Margo was really let down by her dad.  I think the things that happen to all of us in our formative years, certainly for me, things that happened to me in like middle school are still the things that are my soft, tender spots.  I think for Margo, she wants to be there for younger people and younger women in a way that she felt like her dad and Wernher von Braun was.  I feel like I don’t know if she is consciously trying to right a wrong when it comes to her experience with her father.  I do think there is a degree to which she sees Aleida’s (Coral Peña) massive potential and she knows part of what will help her get there is to have somebody pushing for her and pushing her and rooting for her.  It was a really fun to kind of just honor the complexity of I’m a person who doesn’t necessarily always deal with people well, especially when it comes to emotions even though I have a huge heart way down deep inside.  And, also, I’m great if we are talking about space missions.  I am great if we are talking about getting to Mars.  But if you want me to talk about like how to mend a really painful and emotional wound, I have no clue.  To just really sit in that before walking into that trailer every time we did that scene, and Coral is a really amazing scene partner.  I actually felt awful on that day.  It was like I feel like a lady wearing a funny costume and I have got on this wig and I feel like an imposter.  I feel like a fraud.  I suck.  It just goes to show, if you play the scene and you just give over to it, I was really shocked.  It was one of my favorite scenes.  When I was watching the first half of the season I was like, “This scene is really compelling.  How could it be this compelling when I felt like such garbage?” It just goes to show how little you sometimes know as an actor when you are there on the day.