Lin Shaye – The Grudge

By starrymag | January 15, 2020

By: Kelly Kearney

 

 

Q) You play Faith, a woman struggling with dementia in the new film The Grudge from the famous horror franchise Ju-on. What was it about this character or script that made you want to sign on to the project?

Lin: It’s a very different film. It’s not what people are expecting because Nicolas Pesce is not the guy you’re expecting either. He’s a very independent thinker and really a creative spirit. The film, I guess, has gotten some mixed reviews, but the fans that really get it, get it, and that’s very important to me. I know the hard work we all put into it and the film is a whole different experience compared to your classic typical screaming horror film. It’s got a real psychological bite to it. I was just on Facebook and saw one of the reviews and it says, “The Grudge is like three interconnected short films cut together to illustrate how one person’s sins can keep ruining people’s lives years later.” What a great review and that’s something to remember about even with real life.

Q) Not only is Faith suffering from dementia but she’s also suffering under the curse of the grudge. As an actor, what were some of the challenges you faced portraying her?

Lin: I think the script was riveting and it was different. It wasn’t just your typical scary movie. It was really about these three women and their families, or lack of families, and about the pain they were going through. It was a real psychological drama to me and I thought all three women were dealing with different subjects for better or for worse – dementia and growing older, fear of losing your life and your husband and the life that you remember. That’s a very prevalent thing in our society right now because people are living longer and, of course, Andrea’s [Riseborough] character is a single mom who lost her husband and is trying to navigate a career with a little boy. And then Betty Gilpin, she is another woman whose baby’s been diagnosed with something wrong and faced with a decision of whether or not she should have this child. I mean, these are profound themes that I think are very relatable. It’s a good question about the challenges. I didn’t do any specific research, but there was a wonderful documentary on “60 Minutes” about a year ago about a woman who had dementia from the very beginning of her disease to almost right before she died. And to watch the disintegration of her personality was fascinating and extremely sad. So, I thought when you are in some other place you’re not here anymore and I tried to manifest that physically – what it would be like and where do they live if not in the now. I think there’s something that happens in people’s eyes when they leave the present and I hope I captured that because that dissociation can manifest itself into that stare they call “the reptilian stare.” So, I thought about that especially in those beginning scenes and actually (director) Nicolas [Pesce] talked about that and it was sort of an improv. I was just talking about her at the playground – it was just these moments of normalcy which you long for I guess on some subconscious level. You want to go back to places where you had joy and where you had normalcy in your life and so those little moments Nicolas really liked, and he put that in. It was, again, a little bit of an improv thing where I had my arm around her, but it really wasn’t around anything. It was just hanging in the air. So, trying to find those places that didn’t seem artificial or corny…Like for example the scene with me eating the baby food. We must have done that take about ten times [laughs]. There was one take where I just spit all over Frankie [Faison]! I think those scenes will make their way onto a deleted scene reel for the DVD release. [laughs] The look on Frankie’s face was worth it for the whole thing. He didn’t even know I was going to do it and that was the fun for me. With acting, when you can surprise yourself and it’s within the framework of the character and it sort of comes out from where you’re at in the scene, what a thrill that is. [laughs] We were very proud of ourselves that day.

Q) Obviously, the relationship between Faith and her husband, played by Frankie Faison, was very relatable to anyone who has watched a loved one struggling with an illness. Would you say Faith’s struggle is what sets this film apart from other scary movies in the genre?

Lin: No, I agree with you, and I think that’s what set this whole movie apart in many respects. I do because this is a psychological drama. It’s not just a horror film. It’s about these three women who are struggling and that’s sort of couched in with the framework of The Grudge itself. I mean, the review that I read to you earlier that will stick with me forever; what you do now has the possibility of…Excuse me for saying this, but f**k up other people later on. You’ve got to make good choices and sometimes you have no control over the choices you get to make and that’s the horror of this film. These women have no choice really. They’re all three afflicted with what’s happened to them in their lives and they have no real control over it. That’s why I’m a little frustrated with some of the reviewer’s. I mean, I try not to read them. [laughs] But, of course, I’ve read all of them because I want to see what people are thinking and I guess it really separated the boys from the men or at least in the way people witnessed the film. I mean, you can’t please everyone and that’s fine. I don’t think you should have to, but I think these three stories are really what sets it apart from other horror films. Their stories? That’s real horror. It’s not jump-scares, which this film has as well, obviously. It’s this psychological drama that’s by far the most interesting aspect of the film.

Q) How was it working with director Nicolas Pesce on this film?

Lin: Joy. Pure joy. Honestly, I couldn’t believe it was him that wrote that script! When I met him, he was this jaunty huge…I mean, he just turned thirty years old (he was twenty-eight years old we made the movie). I don’t know if you saw Eyes of My Mother, but it’s really fantastic and that was his very first film. He’s an indie filmmaker who then had an opportunity to do a studio film and that was also a little bit of a pitfall. You know when you move into the big leagues people are expecting you to follow the rules and he doesn’t, and God bless him for that! May he never follow those rules because that’s why he’s an artist. So, it was very clear that no matter what you were doing if you called out, “NICK!” no matter where he was you would hear a pitter patter and he’d be running as fast as his feet could take him over to the set. He has a tight hand where he knows what he wants. I was so grateful because as an actor there’s a part of me that tries to feel out the temperature of a set and how much I could ask for or how much I should offer up. For example, I’m doing a TV series right now, “Penny Dreadful,” and it’s a different kind of story because, even though it’s wonderful television, there’s not really that open space. It’s a writer’s show and John Logan (who’s the writer and a brilliant, brilliant, brilliant writer and showrunner)…There’s only a limited space to say, “Can we do it this way?” And the answer is usually that he’ll think about it followed by a quick “yes” or “no,” but in this situation with Nick I really knew I could dig deep down and pull out all my imaginative craziness. When I can do that, I feel like I can inspire myself. I feel like it’s always my best work when I’m allowed to do that, and he was very open to it. He even said to me, “I don’t usually let actors do what they want but with you I’ll let you do what you want.” He would always give me an extra take and say, “Now you do whatever you want,” and we would do it his way and then we would do it my way. What a great freedom that was and it’s almost scary because if you can do what you want maybe it’s not going to be anything they want, but I get turned on by that. It gets my motor going. Like the baby food eating scene was one of those times, as well as another scene which didn’t make it into the final cut. One of me having a seizure. I don’t know how much of this read in the actual story, but Faith is trying to commit suicide and is not being successful. She’s taking these pills and they’re just not killing her. And there’s a scene of Frankie and I trying one last time before the assisted suicide where I’m fairly lucid and we take the pills and I have this incredible attack, but I don’t die. That was a really powerful moment for me, and I know for Nick as well. I mean everybody was really quiet after that. I was exhausted, but he allowed me to go wherever my mind and my imagination took me.

Q) What sets this film apart from the rest of the films in the Ju-on universe?

Lin: I think it’s more updated and more like what we were talking about before. I like the women’s problems in this film. They are different and that’s what’s being explored and that’s what’s being exploited by this curse, The Grudge. These women, they’re also weakened by their dilemmas. I kind of added that into my idea about the film. The curse of The Grudge sticks on people who are weakened and all three of these women have been weakened by the circumstances of their lives. I think that’s different. People who tune in to the pain of these women and their dilemmas, it’s not as present as the original Ju-on. I actually love the original film. It was like watching kabuki. It was beautiful and it’s scary, but it’s scary from a more distant place. This is scary from more of an interior place, and I think that’s what makes this different.

Q) In 2020, do horror movies need to be relatable for them to land with the fans?

Lin: There are a lot of different ways that entertainment can go and there is still value in going to a scary “boo movie” and people love those, but even that pushes the envelope these days. Some people say with The Grudge there was one review I read that said it waits too long for the “boo.” Well, it did that on purpose. It’s like, if you think you’re going to see some teenage horror movie, that’s a whole different story and that’s not what this movie is about. I feel it’s very important for me as an artist in this point in my career to have an idea about what I do. You know, my early training was with Stella Adler and I’ll never forget her talking about that in class. She was a bigger than life woman, as both a teacher and as a performer, and she said that if you don’t find the sociological impact of what you’re saying, than it’s not worth saying. Even with comedies it’s like that. I do this because I really want to make people think about different things. I’m not just a woman who just wants to be a Hollywood actress. I mean, I never even thought about that stuff, but that has really been a part of my journey. It’s important to me and I think now it’s coming to fruition and it’s a very exciting time. To go back to your question, I thought the script was really terrific and I thought the character was fascinating. I’ve never played anything like that before. There’s a scene in the film that didn’t make the final cut, which I really missed because it was one of the reasons that I took the role. It shows Faith on a good day where she and her husband are sitting on the couch reminiscing about their life together and it’s very emotional for me even now to talk about. [tears up] The scene is they’re at the lake house and a bird comes into the house in the middle of the night. Frankie puts on a coat and a cowboy hat because it was the only thing that he has available to go catch the bird and take it back outside. It’s this beautiful memory of who she was, and you know when we meet her in the film now the impact of the character is quite a bit different because she’s already gone. So, those were elements that I thought really made the character sing for me. I felt really honored to be asked to play it.

Q) The horror genre has evolved and so have the fans and what they want from their favorite films. What makes a horror film work in 2020 as opposed to when you first started working on them in the ’80s?

Lin: Well, that’s a hard question to answer, but I think as we’ve gotten less naive the world has become really complicated. That’s one of the reasons why I love this story because the world is full of rage right now. I mean, I am extremely pessimistic and upset by what’s gone wrong in the real world right now and I think we’ve passed the point of no return to be honest. I don’t think we can save our planet. I mean, I don’t think it’s going to end today or tomorrow (I hope), but I think we humans have created incredible damage and I think there’s a subconscious desire probably and maybe now horror films are reflecting this in which the psychological aspects like The Grudge are now reflecting this sort of vacuum we’ve created in our society – a disassociation from family, and really the old classic the family unit. It’s too complicated now and technology has screwed us. It has given us a lot of leeway in new places, but it’s also really damaged us. We are more impatient and want everything right now. You press a button and you’ve got it instantly. Everybody’s struggling it seems and I think it’s because people are not relating to each other at all like they used to. I mean, back in the day we had one phone in the house and if you needed to call someone and the line was busy than tough. You had to call them back tomorrow. You think of that now and that would never happen. So, I think the scary things in films today are reflecting this vacuum. I don’t know if it makes us more or less open to jump scares, like if we want to go back to the simplicity of those films, but I think psychologically horror films are much more complicated now. If you look at films like Get Out, which of course is a wonderful example of the question “What is the horror?” It’s the hatred we’re dealing with and a much more primitive set of emotions rather than just being scared. Hatred and mistrust and disassociation and lack of connection, those are the real scary things in life right now. It’s no longer the boogeyman we fear but the neighbor who lives next door. Our fears have become much more primitive as technology brings the world closer together.

Q) You’ve done dozens of horror movies over the last few decades, going all the way back to A Nightmare on Elm Street and most recently the uber-popular franchise Insidious. What is it about the horror genre that keeps you coming back for more and how has it changed over the course of your career?

Lin: I think I really am just attracted to good stories. It’s not like I look for horror films to do. I love interesting stories that are character driven that I feel is important to explore. There’s a little film that I’m going to start doing in a few weeks and it is a classic old-fashioned horror movie. It’s a bunch of teenagers and I’m a scary woman, like a real classic horror movie set up, and when I got the script I first I asked my manager why we were doing this. So, I looked into it and now I have a hook and I know who this woman is. I can see that she’s been abused by these kids her whole life and she’s become a witch. You become what people see you as. So, it started taking on a more of psychological aspect to it. Maybe I’m looking into it too much, but I believe in the characters I’ve been fortunate enough to play. They impact people because that’s the work I choose to do. That’s what I’m interested in. I don’t just play a sad woman or a scary woman. I want to know what elements of the story made her that way. I don’t look just for genre; I mean, I love comedy too and I am a very funny person. [laughs] I just kind of think life can be so ridiculous. So, I love comedy and I love having that bend on things. I was talking about “Penny Dreadful” earlier and I have a fantastic character in that show. It takes place in 1938 and I play an old woman and we’re not doing any age make-up. Although, I don’t much need it anymore. [laughs] In the story she’s supposed to be between the ages of eighty and ninety. she was born in 1858 and me and Nathan Lane are Nazi hunters! Get ready “Dreadful” fans! So, yeah, I don’t look for genres. I look for character driven stories.

Q) You have a slasher movie coming out titled Get Gone where you play “Mama,” the matriarch of the Maxwell family. Tell the fans a little bit about this internet hoax meets hillbilly family meets masked killer story and how your character fits in.

Lin: A friend of mine, Mark David, was the DP on it. He called me and said there’s this movie shooting in beautiful Oregon, out in the woods, and the guy is a first-time filmmaker and there’s a great role for me. And I said no, I wasn’t doing it. [laughs] I realize I’m often a no first person, but then I thought maybe I should read it. And, so I did, and I actually thought it was quite good! I thought the character…There’s one monologue she had that was really wonderfully written. I’ve discovered that when it’s a good writer you learn it word for word. No improv, no adding in things, like how it is on “Penny Dreadful” where the writing is so spectacular, and every word is precise and that specific. I thought the same about this particular monologue in Get Gone. It really caught me. There was so much in it. So, long story short, I said I would do it and went up to Oregon and met with the director Michael Thomas Daniel. So, I was there I guess ten days and we shot the film and there was a lot of frustration just because I’m used to a real professional setup, it makes your work easier and it makes it more fun and it was a difficult shoot but they were very nice to me and they put me up in a beautiful hotel because we were on the Washington/Oregon border. And I can’t remember the name of the resort, but everybody else was living in cabins. I didn’t want to be in those little cabins. I needed a hot bathtub after a long day. So, they catered to my whim. They might have spent more money on me than they did on the whole movie (which I didn’t ask them to do), but they were very generous, and they didn’t have to be. I did love the character. So, cut to suddenly this little movie is winning all these awards and the fun thing was for a first-time director when you don’t really know the rules you don’t have to play by them! He got himself a badge and he marched into the AFM and he sold the movie to Phoenix International and they bought the film. Then, he started submitting it to all these festivals and it started winning awards. Then, Cleopatra (which is basically a music company but also started producing films) just bought it and now it’s getting a little release in theaters and it’s got a legitimate fanbase. I have not seen the final cut, but as a first-time movie maker he did everything himself. It really became a work of love and commitment to get this thing off the ground and finished. Michael, God bless his heart, he learned as he went and was relentless about getting it done. So, it was a very interesting journey. I have tremendous regard for his tenacity and his talent. He’s enormously talented and with him comes a really big ego. Quite frankly, without his ego he couldn’t have gotten any of this accomplished. We could probably all use a bigger ego like that.

Q) Mama isn’t your ordinary horror movie character. She’s creepy, but she has depth, and as a viewer, you feel sympathy for her and the Maxwell family’s struggle. How did you manage to shake off a long day of filming such an intense role?

Lin: With a warm hot bath and the gift shop. [laughs] I got a lot of tchotchke’s from there! [laughs]

Q) Besides acting you also were credited with producing the film Room for Rent. What pushed you towards producing and do you have any plans to do it again?

Lin: Oh, I am so in love with that movie! I’ve never gotten reviews like that for anything I’ve ever done. It’s one of my favorite movies and the character is one of my favorite characters I’ve ever played. That was by Tommy Stovall, who I’ve done two other movies with – Hate Crime and Sedona. And he just found me out of the blue on IMDB and said I looked like the woman that he’s trying to portray. The movie did quite well this was with Seth Peterson and it had a pretty good cast. Then Sedona was with Francis Fisher and Beth Grant. Anyway, he found this little script and he sent it to me and, at first, I didn’t like it. I was in the middle of shooting something else, I think, and I wasn’t interested. Then, about a year and a half later he called me and said, “Hey, remember that movie I sent you? Can I send it to you again?” So, he did, and I read it and I thought to myself, “What didn’t I like about this?” [laughs] So, we started talking about it and I said we’ve seen this story before – it’s old hat. This woman is a psychotic killer and she’s killed her husband. We’ve already seen that movie. What if this is about a woman who is sort of disenfranchised and whose husband is dead but has kept her as his slave for thirty years – pretty much kept her in the kitchen? We all know, unfortunately, there are women in this world and that’s the life they are leading. They live in the shadows and we will never know who they are. They live and die without anybody knowing much about them. I thought maybe she could be that woman. When this man, her husband, finally dies she has no idea how to navigate society or her own life and that could be her journey into madness. So, that’s how I became a producer and we worked on that together, Tommy and I, and I’m very grateful when people listen to me and he really did! I mean, I wouldn’t even think of doing that over on “Penny Dreadful.” I mean, I’m working with Nathan Lane. He’s practically royalty and I am so shy around him I can barely open my mouth. And the writers are incredible. They are brilliant. So, I wouldn’t dare do that there, but I was really glad that Tommy listened and was so open to my ideas. I like feeling comfortable enough where I can talk and ask if we could try things different ways.

Q) Are you currently working on anything else the rabid horror fans can keep an eye out for?

Lin: We mentioned “Penny Dreadful” and, Kelly, the story…Gosh, this story is incredible. It’s basically Los Angeles in 1938 and it covers Mexican American folklore and the social tensions of the time. It explorers pre-World War 2 L.A., Nazism…[pause] It’s extraordinarily complicated and exquisitely written and it’s been pure joy to work on, especially alongside so many brilliant people. I also have two movies coming out in the future. One that I also got involved in producing thanks to my big mouth! [laughs] I just get excited and full of ideas and I don’t even know where they come from, honestly Kelly. But, for me, it’s the most exciting part about creation. This movie is called Dreamkatcher I think. That’s the working title. I’m not sure if will remain that, but it’s a very good story starring Henry Thomas, me and Radha Mitchell. That’s going to be released from Grindhouse and, yeah, Lionsgate has it. I don’t know what kind of release they’re planning. It is still not a hundred percent finished, but it’s a really good story and I think it’s very well written. I added a lot of stuff in terms of my character because the mythology of the story was not explained so I helped with that. I think we made it more understandable, at least I hope we did. I mean, if the audience doesn’t understand something really what’s the point? So, it’s a supernatural horror film and it’s coming out we think in the spring. Then, I’m going to be working on this movie The Call, which is the one I mentioned about the older woman struggling with the kids in her neighborhood who ridiculed her all her life and we’re just in the midst of casting it now. Timothy Woodward, who directed a movie I did last year called The Final Wish that did quite well, he’s a really talented man and he pulled together the money for this thing and I don’t even know how he did it! Literally in six weeks! It’s not a big budget film, but it’s in the realm of these other movies that I’ve been doing, the $1,000,000 and under budget, and we’re shooting that in the next few weeks. That will probably be out towards the end of the year and I think it will get picked up because it’s a good story. I don’t know I’m really happy with all the things that I have been working on, if you can’t tell. [laughs]

Q) What would you like to say to the fans who have supported your work and followed your career for the last forty years?

Lin: Forty-nine years actually! [Exuberantly] I got my equity card in 1971, at the Chelsea Theater Center in New York – my first union card. I guess I would like to just say thank you because, I swear to God, I had no idea that I was going to get where I am, and I still don’t hardly believe it! I really mean it. I, honestly, hardly believe it. I never had any goals, ever, and I guess I just get excited about something and that stimulates something in me that I have no control over. I think I was given a gift and I really say that from a supernatural place because there’s me, who kind of struggles with day-to-day things like brushing my teeth and getting even that right, and then I get these wonderfully complex ideas that sort of spill over. And the fact that they’ve carried me to a place where I am and helped create this beautiful fanbase I have, I’m just beyond grateful and filled with gratitude. I love what I do and I’m always terrified and I’m always scared I won’t do good or I don’t know the answers. I’ve had all those fears that we all have so maybe it’s a good thing to be able to put all those aspects of me in my stories? So, I guess what I have to say is thank you. Thank you for receiving the gift that I didn’t even know I had.