Antonio Méndez Esparza – Courtroom 3H

By starrymag | June 25, 2021

By: Jennifer Vintzileos

 

Q) I watched the documentary and as a mother, I was in tears and in some of the spots angry and Courtroom 3H just evokes so much emotion. And I thought it was a great opportunity to speak to you about, why you decided to write and direct the film?

A) No, it’s true. Even while shooting it, I was very moved. It was, in a way, easy and very difficult. It was easy because I’m used to fiction. And in fiction, of course, you push for things right? Here you don’t, you just sit and watch. And but of course, say sitting on watching and recording, I guess there were there were a lot of questions that came to me. And I think I am in a way my own relationship with nonfiction. Even though I had never made that documentary, but I was kind of a little bit on the frontier. My previous films were non-professional actors and we were very fiction, but I explored quite a bit the world and I was always very intrigued by him. By the worlds I encountered while doing research on Aquí y Allá: Here and There, I thought it was kind of necessary for me to sit and watch and to understand the proceedings of the court. And, to the question of why I made it, it’s always a very difficult question to answer.

Currently, I’m working on the adaptation of a novel of an author, which is very different to this project. And I asked him the same question. I said, “How did you come up with this idea, right?” And his answer was, “It’s impossible to really understand sometimes why you make the things you do. Of course, we always want an answer, but it’s very hard. And I think, to me, I always answer why I made this film – it comes from a sense of…My previous film was Life and Nothing More and it’s a film I love very much. But there was something that I thought I didn’t quite capture. And I tried to capture it with this film and maybe what I mean with what I failed to capture, I think, in a way the court proceeding in Life and Nothing More was a sort of plot point.

And I wanted to kind of immerse myself in the legal system, in the judicial system and in the families and in love. When I mean love, I mean the feelings that parents have for their children when they are exposed to this system. So, there are many, many, many answers right to the question and I think depending sometimes even when people ask me, that probably the question now is the answer. Now, to that answer, it is difficult to answer. I will give in three years because your life changes. You’d think maybe what made you make that film was another reason anyway.

Q) During the filming of the documentary, what was the biggest lesson that you learned about dependency court and the system as a whole?  

A) It’s a very difficult question. I had a relationship with the Judge before we started filming, a relationship of some sort of trust. That’s why I was allowed in court. That was not the only reason. Like in a raid, in a way the statute protects you. So, you can sit there. So, I was protected, but there was certain trust established. I have a certain esteem for him. I had the belief in him. But, of course, I was very surprised now being there two months. I was surprised by his behavior, his approach, the difficulty of his decision.

When I try to make a film, I try to fight my own beliefs of things to try as much as possible to start from zero. So, all my preconceptions I tried to erase and just to have the camera as the tool to witness without preconceptions. This is very difficult, of course, because we are all full of them. But I tried to, in this sense…I was quite impressed by the sort of professionalism of all the public defenders and the public. So, all the public servants, let’s say, and even the private ones, I was moved by the commitment of all to their belief in the role in the system.

Of course, the main threat of the movie, the main goal, the thing that pushed me to make this film was in a way to try and find emotions present in court. It is present in this proceeding, right, which is very legal, as you’ve seen is very, is full of certain nomenclature and certain technical aspects. But, also, I was trying to see families, in this context. How do they withstand? How do they survive? How do they defend themselves now in, in this sort of oppositional system? And these other things I mentioned, there were discoveries. And, of course, the resiliency of families was overwhelming. I always saw or I thought I witnessed different definitions of love for the children. I think that was the thing I found. That human aspect I think was the one that moved me the most.

Q) I know that the hearings take place in Tallahassee, Florida. How did you come to the decision to film the hearings there?  

A) Well, that’s where I live. I teach in Florida State, which is where Barry Jenkins went to school and we’re also proud and it’s so busy, huge and it’s actually a school that has supported me very much in my time there. Of course, my production company here in Spain, Aquí y Allí Films with Pedro Hernández, they’ve been great partners. I couldn’t have done anything without them. And then it’s my home. So, in a way, that’s where I can do things and it’s, of course, the capital of Florida. It’s a city with certain establishments. It’s very interesting. It’s very diverse. So, I think I embraced home in a way.

In a way it’s interesting, this notion of fighting my preconceptions. I think I tried to take it in my work and being home in Tallahassee, even though I’m from Spain. But because I’ve been living there now for eight years, it actually allows me to be more involved in a way. I feel part of the community. I think some of the difficult questions I have to answer myself. The main one is, “Do you have the right to make this movie?” I think because I live there, I think I have a certain responsibility. So, I don’t perceive myself as fully foreign. I see myself as part of the community, so that allows me to make this. I feel it gives me a certain maybe an excuse or a certain responsibility in that sense.

Q) From what I gathered, the Honorable Jonathan Sjostrom seemed to really keep his composure and assert authority with a sense of calm in his courtroom during the documentary. Was there a particular moment during filming that really spoke to Judge Sjostrom’s character?  

A) Well, what I felt allowed, because, of course, you don’t want to go back and back to the image, the preconceptions. And not even the preconceptions, sometimes the media portrayed, right, they always remember the Judges on TV. And my experience with Judges, they’re often quite different? And in dependency, of course, they try to be more caring and more involved. That doesn’t mean that unfair things cannot happen. But there is a different—it’s not what I expected. And so, I was very impressed from the beginning. And then I realized that, in a way, what impressed me the most is that even in very difficult decisions—for example, when parents give their paternity, the Judge has a sort of a speech that seems a bit like a priest or a doctor even. Like trying to heal the soul. So, what impressed me the most is that he…Then I guess…You can decide what to believe, if they care or not, but they (at least in this court) seem to care about the person and the words that were said, they were often in this direction.

That impressed me very much. Then, of course, you realize that he doesn’t—the first time you hear one phrase, you’re like, “Wow, he’s great.” Then, of course, you hear it five times. And then you start thinking, “Well, this is what he says when this happens.” In a way the magic disappears; I don’t want to say the trick, but the experience.

So, that was interesting to see that. And then, of course, the immense difficulty of many decisions. I think the audience in the movie has less information than the judge. And then we only get a fraction of it. But I also don’t know, of course, maybe they have more information, maybe some cases are clear. But I think often this is a bit subjective, so there is an element of human decision that I think is very important to kind of experience as an audience and understand. And even maybe at the end of the screening have different opinions about it.

There was one case that’s not in the movie. It was not in the movie because it wasn’t in the end—it was not so much about this feeling, this link between mothers or fathers and sons. It was a case that was two days, it was a trial. And the whole production team was there shooting, and we all went one day to believe one thing very firmly to the second day to believe the whole opposite. And at the end of the day, we were unsure of what to believe. Because they were just two very different versions that both convinced us. So, we didn’t really know what to do. So, in the end is not there. But I think that was very revealing for all of us. When we do think that there is one moment in the Judge where everything remains clear in the trial. And I think sometimes that moment doesn’t quite happen. I’m sure you remember that Tom Cruise movie A Few Good Men?

Q) Yes.  

A)That last moment like he’s finally revealed, you know that he did it? The lawyer got him. Well, that doesn’t happen so often. That’s in Hollywood. So, yeah, that was something as you’re shooting and you’re filming, and we were always looking at faces, and we were often trapped by the proceedings. And, yeah, that was very—I was very present, particularly in trials. Trials I think we all maybe have different opinions of what should have happened.

Q) In your opinion, which scene was the hardest to capture?  

A) This is also very difficult, because you don’t know what’s going to happen. We were just waiting there, and people will come. So, we were unprepared, always. We were always unprepared, meaning of what we were going to shoot. I think the trials, of course, were very tough because they started…Of course, you don’t see it in the movie, but they started very slowly. And then they got more and more tense, more intense, more intense until the end, when it’s nerve-wracking. I think those were very tough, the trials, because of what’s at stake. There were other hearings that were also difficult because of the tension of that was left, but I think the trials definitely were, there was a sense of a decision is going to be made that that is very heavy.

Q) When reviewing the documentary, was there any footage that you wished you had had more time to add?  

A) You know, that’s a great question. But I think we very quickly understood that if we were to, we could have shot for a year, right? We shot for two months, but it could have been a year, and then some cases we would have been able to follow, and the movie would have a different structure. But we very quickly had to make a decision to contain. We’re going to shoot for two months and that’s it, and it will be what it would be. And so, no, that was the conception. I think I was very afraid with the editor and the production, we were afraid that we would have no story that would not be built, it would just be random. So, we had to work quite a bit in the end, but hopefully we did a good job. But I mean, of course, you know the family that opens and closes the hearings – I think we ended up shooting on December 23 and they were going to come back on January 6, and we were like, “Oh, let’s come back and shoot that.” But, in the end, we didn’t. I think then you open another door, and the movie then is about something else. So, I know that movie probably is like a conception, right? But, I mean, that was what we intended to do. So, it’s one of these interesting responses where I would say, “No, no, I think the movie had to be what it could be for good or for bad,” you know?

Q) What do you hope viewers take away from watching Courtroom 3H?  

A)  I don’t think so much of the audience. I don’t mean it as I don’t care. I care a lot and I wish people will watch the film. I know my personal relationship with this process with this project, which is one of trying to understand a particular issue in society which is very hidden, I think, but is very present. And it shows a lot of the problems that are present in society. It’s like a small microscope looking in one particular room that I think show many—and some positive things are some challenges. It shows society with its strengths and weaknesses. And then I think, for me at least, I was a bit—I thought people cared. Of course, the families cared a lot.

There was a certain resilience that was very present in the film that was kind of admiring the resource. Impossible odds to defeat, sometimes with much uncertainty what’s going to happen and there is a depiction of a society that I think is quite diverse in everything. I hope it brings people in a strange way closer to each other, but I guess many moves through that. So, yeah, it’s always there’s always a very different question, but then again if somebody sees it and says, “Well, the system is not working at all, and this is proven.” Well, that may be the reading. To answer your question, I think what I intended to do, in my perspective, is a truthful depiction of the system. And then have the audience decide for themselves.

Q) You have other films that you’ve done. Your other films Aquí y Allá: Here and There, Life and Nothing More and Time and Again all seem to dabble in the themes of family and perseverance amongst immigrant and minority communities. As a filmmaker, why are these themes so important to you?  

A)I don’t think of films as themes. I think my films – I see them more as one film—and my own life takes me to the next—I see them very much related to my life. In my first film it was about an immigrant that was in very different conditions than myself, but an immigrant had left home and lived in Mexico. I met Pedro (who’s the name of the main character and the actor) and I was amazed at his endurance and we made a movie – a movie about his imagined return home. And then after a bit life took me to Tallahassee and I had a project that kind of I adapted there and then that was Life and Nothing More. I’m trying to say is that I don’t see myself in a way as a sort of political activist.

Strangely enough, I found my own personal connection with the films I’ve made, which I didn’t think they were really present. Only later did I understand they are very much related to my own journey, my own life. In very strange ways I do think film has a certain political responsibility. And, of course, if you can look at segments of society that you think are problematic or you think that there is a certain – representation is not this you think it can be more complete or you want to get your own understanding of certain things. So, I have been quite selfish in the movies I’ve made in a way, and they are the product of my life and my choices.

I’m talking about my personal choices like, of course, is the movie if you want to make a certain film. But also—like Courtroom 3H, I tried to make it for a long time, but then when I was going through divorce on my own child custody disagreements, I was making Courtroom 3H. Life and Nothing More, in a way, there is a sort of strange relationship between my life and the films I’ve made. And I do think that artists have a certain responsibility to portray problematic situations, you know? So, I think those two things go together a bit, in a very subconscious way.  

Q) When you did decide to get into filmmaking, what was the best advice you had received?  

A)You get a lot of advice of “don’t do it.” Actually, “No, no, don’t do it. Don’t do it. Don’t do it.” And, of course, you don’t listen to that. I think being really open to exploring and understanding that failure is more than okay. It’s part of the process, in a way being one—afraid of failure and not only unafraid, understanding that in order to—I think Picasso said, “I don’t search, I find.” And I always say, “Well, I’m certainly not Picasso, but I search and search and maybe I find something.” So, there is a certain understanding that the process is what’s most important.

And that the processing includes lots of disappointments and disappointments, lots of being happy with this idea of, throwing things to the can or to the garden. And also understanding that film is very collaborative. Obviously, holding to your idea so tight, not wanting to change anything, having the actor being only what you think, being very open. So, I think those two things were—I don’t think they ever came as advice, but maybe a conversation here, one there and understanding that this is really part of the journey.  

Q) Are there any new projects you’re working on that you can share with us?  

A)Yeah, of course. I’m kind of doing a bit of a change now, where I’m working on an adaptation of a novel. It’s a beautiful, wonderful film, an adaptation story of a book by Juan José Millás, who is a Spanish writer. He wrote this novel, we have the rights and hopefully we’ll be making it next year. And it’s a fiction film, in this case with some actors who are known and it’s quite a change. But, of course, I am trying to surround the fiction with elements of nonfiction. But the movies a bit more of a thriller. I was quite afraid to make Courtroom 3H. I’m quite afraid now to make this. I guess I’m always afraid. But I’m also very excited, you know? It’s a different project to the ones I made before. Perhaps in my mind is a bit – Courtroom 3H was in in an element I kind of was a bit familiar and I had never done nonfiction. But perhaps I was a bit closer. This is a bit more of a different thing. But I am very excited. And, of course, I’m working with Pedro who is the producer of all my films and we’re actually now we are in pre-production. So, we are working quite a bit on it and I’m very excited.

Q) Well, I thank you so much for your time today. And I look forward to everybody at the AFI Docs Festival getting to see this. I mean, I enjoyed getting to watch it. And I really hope that people take away important lessons from it the way I did – that not everyone has it as easy. And that, hopefully, it seems like in the end, a lot of people got to where they needed to when they got their kids back and some didn’t, and some made the toughest decisions. We make decisions for our children, especially as parents. And I hope I’m never placed in that particular position. It made me cherish what I have.  

A) Yeah, I understand. I’m also a father and sometimes you have little patience, and we all commit the sins of the fathers – the sins of the mothers. And one thing that I was very moved by and served as a reminder, these parents made a mistake in a few seconds and that mistake chases them for years. And I felt a sort of kinship with that because there are difficult elements of fatherhood, motherhood that are very difficult. And then I saw their desire to change, their desire to be better. They decided to be there for the kids and as soon as you are that is so pure. So, sometimes the love that sometimes when I come back home, I didn’t show. When you come back home and you’re tired—I got a recurring lesson on the desire to be better.

 

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